Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 574 times)

DavePNW


     

     

    My slow miles are also still 10:00-10:30 so if I can eventually get those down to where my slow runs are in the 8s that alone will help me squeeze in a few extra miles a week. 

     

     

    I wouldn't necessarily plan on this. If anything, when you add more miles (and workouts) your easy pace could get slower to compensate. Although it will still improve your race times, because the mileage volume will increase your endurance - how long you can maintain a given pace. Even a 5k is an endurance race. Everyone's different in terms of how their easy pace correlates to their race paces, I think there's no good formula for that. Easy is an effort, not a pace, you shouldn't even be looking at your watch. You might end up get into the 9s, but whether you'll ever get into the 8s it's hard to say. In the last 10 years I've averaged >2600 miles/year, and cut more than an hour off my marathon time. But my easy pace is about the same, a bit slower if anything.

    Dave

    CommanderKeen


    Cobra Commander Keen

      Flavio - How long did it take to get your bodyweight squat and what did that progression look like?
      I'm not at all certain that I'll be able to keep up with the increased weight (+5lbs/2.2kg) for all three workouts I'm doing per week without having to pause and/or take a cut-back or two before I get to a BW squat, but I'm maybe a month away if I do. Plus it seems like I'm gaining a bit of weight (hopefully more muscle than fat) which could add another workout or so go get there.

       

      I certainly need to read that book or something like it - on my current path both weight and running workouts certainly aren't going to get any easier and it would be nice to get them to work together as much as possible.


      JBlack - Just 3 kids, so that makes things a tad easier!
      Even when running those big miles and 2-3 workouts per week my average pace was probably around 9 min/mi given all the recovery runs. Definitely a time investment, but building up the mileage (however that looks) is just a time investment - there's no need to rush it and try getting paces down at all.
      Whether or not ~40mpw is enough to get a sub 20 5k or whatever marathon you want I can't say - that's really individual. I was probably about that mileage when I first broke 20, but I was also younger and lighter.


      Fishy hasn't been here yet to defend himself from the suggestion, so I'd say he's currently our frontrunner for Thread Overlord.

      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

       

      Upcoming Races:

       

      ?

       

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

         

        Think of it as feeling like the day after a marathon, but without the soreness and stiffness, just lack of energy to do anything.

         

        I call that Tuesday, and it doesn’t come with the PR marathon effort glory or physical pain. 

        Hope you get through it and keep going.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        AndyTN


        Overweight per CDC BMI

          You might end up get into the 9s, but whether you'll ever get into the 8s it's hard to say. In the last 10 years I've averaged >2600 miles/year, and cut more than an hour off my marathon time. But my easy pace is about the same, a bit slower if anything.

          My easy pace has remained the same or slightly slower since I started running seriously, even if my race times have improved a lot. The run I just completed while on lunch was 6.4 miles with 9:35 pace and 135 heart rate. I look back at my log from 4 years ago and my easy runs averaged 9:11 pace at 148 bpm but only averaged 3.5 miles per run. You can see the fitness gains not in the pace but the heart rate and the distance of what I consider an easy run, 6-8 miles now.

           

          I think this is relevant to JBlack as he is in the position I was 4 years ago where I was averaging 60-70 miles per month.

          Memphis / 38 male

          5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

          Fishyone


            Commander- Isn't it customary for the incumbent to run virtually unopposed for re-election?  My vote is 4 more years for the commander and soon to be dictator for life!!

             

            JBlack- I can't emphasize it enough to not worry about pace at all.  Just run more!!  In fact, leave the watch at home (or covered) and just run for time.  If the marathon is your goal, miles and time on your feet will bring you the absolute most bang for your buck at first.  I know it's counter-intuitive and seems wrong but listen to the folks on here.

             

            Mmerk started out worrying about pace and he listened to folks on here and put in the miles and low and behold he's CRUSHING the marathon now.  That combined with the fact that he's a very talented and motivated runner!!!

            5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

            DavePNW


              A slow easy pace can even be a source of pride—in my running group, there are people who run at faster easy paces than me, but who I can beat in races. 

              Dave

              mt79


                Keen/Flavio - Here is the squat perspective from a faster/younger runner.  As a teenager I was squatting 1.5x -1.75x my body weight without any real training.  Just show up and lift it.  How times change haha.  That’s when I was running the 800.  I was stronger than most of the longer distance runners.  A few of those guys took lifting seriously and could out perform me in all of the various lifts.  Even a 10k guy.  Quick edit, that was not a single rep max, I was expected to do 3-5 reps.

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                  Nice guy. ✅

                  Never posted on the Waltons thread. ✅

                  One of this years best performers. ✅

                   

                  If it’s not Fishy then my vote goes to the masked lady for 2024 thread leader.

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    At least no one has to expend valuable training energy on a thread name change this year

                    50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

                    2024 Goals: Road/Track 10km Sub 38:00 - 5km Sub 18:30

                     

                     

                    shouldbedeleted


                      RP - So are you vying for both the City police and State police ?
                      Kudos for passing the test, I was sure you could do it!
                      I think there's some space for powerlifter RP to emerge, I mean, you're already super strong.

                       

                      Keen - Please notice I have nearly zero talent when it comes to lifting weights. I first did a barbell squat back in March this year with something like 40kg and it was a very slow progression, in fact until last week I had never squatted more than 62kg.
                      I have no doubt you will reach a body weight squat before you know it, just focus on doing it with the perfect form and never go to failure.
                      I don't think you need to worry about gaining weight at all.

                       

                      MT - You're also strong as f***. I doubt you lost much if you tried again today. Strength is the last one to go.

                       

                      Strength training book - There's another chapter in the book about self assessment where the author gives guidelines in terms of ideals to reach as an endurance runner:

                      Pushup/press up - < 20 is por, 20-40 is satisfactory and >40 is excellent

                      Side plank - < 60s poor, 60-120s satisfactory, > 120s (2 min) is excellent

                      Vertical jump - <30cm (12 inches) poor, 30-45 satisfactory, > 45cm excellent

                      I can't find the exact section of the book now, but the author also mentions a range of 1x to 1.25x your body weight in the barbell squat is satisfactory and anything above is excellent. The author also points out that the barbell squat is the golden exercise for endurance runners, with the dead lift a close second.

                      He also states that we, endurance runners, should never lift to failure, and not even go close to failure, because the risks of injury massively outweigh the possible benefits.

                      In terms of periodizing the strength training, he mentions the following categories of exercies:

                      Balance - think single leg stuff like airplanes, step ups, etc

                      Base strength - barbell squat, deadlift, benchpress

                      Plyos - Jump onto boxes, single leg hop, broad jump etc.

                      He recommends more balance stuff in the beginning while you're base training in your running, then start with more and more base strength but keep balance work through the next few weeks, then as you approach the peak weeks of your running training plan, reduce volume and intensity in the base strength and add plyos, then as you approach taper cut off most of everything to a much lower level.

                       

                      me - I'm also intensifying the campaign efforts: Vote Fishy!

                      Fishy


                      Dad on the run.

                        AndyTN - May I ask how old you are? That HR is certainly a nice sign of improvements. My last LR was 7.4 miles @ 10:35m/m and avg HR of 157. I know watches are not super reliable in max Vo2 measurements but I am curious what yours is estimating yours to be?

                        Chasing the sub 20 5K.

                        AndyTN


                        Overweight per CDC BMI

                          AndyTN - May I ask how old you are? That HR is certainly a nice sign of improvements. My last LR was 7.4 miles @ 10:35m/m and avg HR of 157. I know watches are not super reliable in max Vo2 measurements but I am curious what yours is estimating yours to be?

                          I just turned 38 and weigh around 180 lbs at 5'10 height. My Garmin says my VO2 Max is 51 but who knows how accurate that is. My 9yo son is a runner too and his Garmin says he has a VO2 of 52 but I can still beat him by 3 minutes in a 5k, for now. I would just use the VO2 as a personal measurement for the watch to tell you if you are making fitness gains instead of comparing to other people.

                           

                          I will give you a couple other stats from recent runs to compare. During a tempo run Sunday, the 6 miles I did at a fast pace were average pace of 7:42 and heart rate of 162. The easy run I did this morning was 8.4 miles with an avg pace of 9:39 and HR of 138. I normally always just run based on heart rate, if I am paying attention to my watch at all. 135-140 for easy runs, 150-160 for long runs, and 165-170 for speed work. Others will train based on specific paces but the HR targets have worked well for me.

                          Memphis / 38 male

                          5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                          shouldbedeleted


                            And because I'll be traveling both the next weekends, here's my 2023 in review:

                            I started the year hopeful to break my 10K PR because honestly it was a bit soft. I had tried to do it in November of last year but came up short when the race course ended up being 10.2km.

                            So in early February I headed over to the beautiful Coimbra for a considerably hilly race and managed to break the PR, running 37:55.

                            That gave me a bit of confidence. What if I could also break my 5k PR, that would be quite harder.

                            So in early March we travelled to a city near Barcelona for a 5k race (Because there are literally zero 5k races in Portugal).

                            And then this time they changed the course at the last minute, and the course ended up being short. Naturally I crossed the finish line and kept running until I heard the 5k beep on my watch and then I was quite happy to see that I had broken my 5K PR by 3 seconds, down to 17:53.

                            That gave me a lot of confidence, so much so that I've signed up for the Valencia Marathon in December, after having said that I'd never run a marathon again, and after having cursed the marathon distance in all the 77 ways there is.

                            Up next though, I had a very interesting challenge in the Porto Eco Trail, a 20k run with roughly 300m of elevation gain and plenty of difficult terrain and stairs along the way.

                            I was poorly dressed for the occasion (as superman off course), on a race that idiotically started at 10:30am with the sun already high.

                            As usual I went out way too fast for my fitness and didn't respect the difficulty of the terrain. Once we left the shade of the trees at around 6km I was already feeling a bit over cooked. Past some beautiful fields and I started seeing that I had gone out at 10k effort on a 20k race.

                            At the first climb which is about 60 or 70m climb up to a bridge, one such climb I had completed several times before in a good pace, but this time I had to walk up most of the way.

                            I was definitely overheating, and walking didn't help to cool me down.

                            I then started feeling some slight disorientation and dry mouth. I stopped by the last aid station around km 12 and didn't drink enough.

                            Then as we approached the city Cathedral there was a ton of tourists there and I missed a turn and went down a flight of stairs.

                            I then realized that it was the wrong way and had to climb it back up, then I found some other runners from the race and followed then.

                            By now I was really "dumb" as in I couldn't follow the directions anymore, I just couldn't see the red thingies they stuck along the course and the other runners kept telling go this way, go that way.

                            Then the most feared climb in the race arrived. It's roughly 300m with a huge climb (maybe 8 or 9% grade). This is another climb that I had managed to run up several times before without any issues, but this time I had to walk all the way up.\

                            After managing to cautiously make my way downstairs on the other side, I got to the flat which would remain flat to the finish line.

                            However my mouth was extremely dry and I was overheating even when I tried to walk. I feared I'd collapse before the finish line and DNF the race.

                            *defeated male leaves*

                             

                            I figured it was all due to poor execution (not drinking enough water, going out too fast and not wearing UPF 50 protective clothing).

                            I certainly was in a monster shape for that race. I have no doubt I'd break my half PR if I had run one in decent weather at the time.

                             

                            Up next, base building to bring my weekly mileage from then roughly 55 miles per week to a more respectable 70 miles per week in preparation for a half marathon in early October in Cologne Germany.

                            Before that there was a 5k which would work as a fitness gauge in early August in Brazil, as I was visiting my family there.

                            Unfortunately I got covid and couldn't run for 3 or 4 days, exactly around the race.

                            So next it was the half marathon in Cologne. Training went well and I was in excellent shape.

                            Come race day though the wheels came off on the last 3 KM and I missed my PR by 14 seconds.

                            I also got covid another time after the race, though thankfully this time I was able to train through it, though it made for some really miserable training runs, I think I ran 12 minute miles one of those days.

                             

                            Up next 2 months between the half marathon race and the Valencia marathon.

                            Training went relatively well until about 3 weeks from the race, then things started going down hill.

                            The race didn't go well at all (I was expecting at the very least a PR sub 3h05 based on training).

                            And that was 2023. I hope to maybe race more often next year.

                            Mileage wise I'm gonna run over 4300km (2700mi) this year which is a lot more than the 2700 from last year, so good progress.

                            DavePNW


                              Holy shit, are we all supposed to write a year in review report? And read everyone else’s? This thread is a job! 

                              Dave

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                Flavio yes. I’m applying to separate agencies. Actually, I should look up my background stuff again for the State application since I have a deadline.  City is just doing their background first, then interviewing me before the next step. The police backgrounds ask very similar questions, and my assumption is ‘they’re looking for your story to change just a little bit so they can find a lie.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 53.37 

                                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22