2019 3:20, And Beyond (Read 249 times)

    Thanks Brewing runner.  I will definitely drink more water, hopefully it helps me heal better.

    That really was a very nice run you had on the weekend.  Very, very close to that BQ.  3:05 is a very good time.  The first BQ time I had was in your AG (35-39?) but I'm pretty sure I ran 3:14 to BQ back then.  The times are a good bit tougher nowadays I think.  Take some time to savor the 3:05 and recover and then get back to training.  It'll come.

    PRs

    Jim E


      Brew - I said, adversity, not controversy.

       

      rlk - The women's open team that you ran with only had one member - Bridget - that I recognized from last time. The did win their division though.

       

      There's this bunch or relay teams called "We Be Crazies" that do the Big Sur Marathon relay each year. A couple of years ago rlk got herself and me in as last minute subs. We did OK in our respective divisions. I've had a standing invite to do it again, so this year I did. But I had a bit of a problem. All last week I was fighting a stomach bug. When I thought it was gone it would come back, Nausea, headaches, bathroom nastiness, the works. Had it been a normal race without a team involved, I would have DNSed it, but it was too late to find a sub, so I felt I had to do it even if I jogged it with porta-potti stops.

       

      I prepared as best I could, dined on a sandwich the evening before, had a breakfast of coffee and a granola bar. So far so good. The buses that took us to the relay exchange stayed put so they could bring the 3rd leg runners back when the race was over. I stayed warm on the bus until ti was time for a short warmup, and timed it about right to be there for my handoff.  My leg, leg 4, was a little over 9 miles, and started out as a series of long rollers by the ocean. The first mile was mostly uphill and I was a bit tentative. I felt a little weird but had no actual symptoms. I was keeping the uphill pace in the neighborhood of 8:00 so not exactly jogging it either. By mile 3 I was more confident and running harder, attacking the hills more both up and down. After halfway we were in Carmel Heights, where the hills get shorter and steeper with lots of corners and odd cambers. I was getting into it, thinking that perhaps this would not come apart at any minute. With one mile to go there is a steepish uphill for about a quarter mile (not fun for those running the full marathon), then it's downhill to the end. There is a bend just before the finish, and you can hear the announcer before you see it, then the last 50 yards is a downhill dash. Wow, I made it without disaster, even if I wasn't particularly fast. It was until later at the prizegiving that things went south rather quickly. I was in the middle of a crowd of runners and needed to find a receptacle Right Now! Porta potties were too far away. Oh here are some bins. Trash, recycling or compost? Definitely compost. I discovered that if you empty your stomach contents, forcefully and at length, into a compost bin with lots of people around, nobody will say a thing.  Then I rejoined the team, feeling much better and ready for the trip on stage. They do give out nice stuff at BSIM, see pic below. The medal is ceramic on a leather thong and the plaque thing is thick enough to be free-standing.

      There were giving out awards for the Boston to Big Sur runners on the basis of aggregate times for both races. Michael Wardian won that. I noticed that the people who did well at B2BS mostly ran the two races in quite similar times. A couple of people even ran Big Sur faster than Boston. I suppose the winning tactic is to run the first race a little easy, then hammer it for the second one.

      rlk_117


      Resident Millennial

        kcam- so sorry to hear it!! heal up soon.

         

        dwave-  not to play the comparison game, but just as a benchmark, a faster PR than yours is a pretty good accolade for me Smile where was your PR run? Think I might be able to target a low 19 5k on memorial day?

         

        jim- nice! looking forward to hearing the stories from Ken and Chen's Anniversary Party in Big Sur the race.

        -- i edited my post and now your report is here, yay! sorry to hear you were ill going into it and perhaps throughout it too. sounds like you handled it like a champ anyways - especially finding that compost bin!  I had that leg the one year I did it and rather liked it. Nice to have the fanfare in the final stretch, and the hills were kind of fun and roller coaster-y.

         

        i installed an update on my garmin. it informed me this evening that I PRed the mile in 7:46. Neat.

        _________________________________________________
        mile, 5:38 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
        2019: short distance stuff, summer break, train for CIM?

        CommanderKeen


        Aspiring Hobby Jogger

          Brew - That type of course is really tough on the legs. Even running OKC Sunday my quads were feeling the now majority downhill in the last couple miles of the new course.
          The sickness is almost through. DD1 got hit first and hardest, then me , but now DW is feeling the effects. DD2 & 3 haven't been affected, though, which is nice. I was really surprised at how quickly I felt normal again after it left my system.

          How's the recovery going? Noticing any delayed effects of the big downhill?


          Jim - Good job making it through the relay leg without incident, and major kudos for not backing out on a team like that.


          RLK - While she may have a different opinion, I think DWave makes an excellent benchmark - I consider it quite the feather in my hat to share a 10k PR with her. Now I just need to bring all of my other PRs up to speed...

          5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

           

          Upcoming Races:

          Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

          Wurst Race Half 10/5

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            dwave I feel your pain. Doing the same time TWICE must have sucked. Would you rather have the PR or the money?  

             

            Honestly, I'd rather have the win than the time.  Just how I'm wired.  And it was actually a somewhat big deal race (though ultimately not that deep) so it was fun to win it. 

             

            Had I PRed but been outkicked, I'd be more pissed off about the result than I am now.  (however, had I run slow AND gotten outkicked, I would have been REALLY pissed). Some people are ultimately about times; I'm ultimately about beating others. 

            I think that was probably part of why I tucked in behind that woman instead of pushing early on - just the more appealing choice.  My 5K PR was set in a race where I had absolutely no female competition, and a ton of men to chase, so I could just time trial and take risks.

             

            dwave-  not to play the comparison game, but just as a benchmark, a faster PR than yours is a pretty good accolade for me Smile where was your PR run? Think I might be able to target a low 19 5k on memorial day?

             

            Actually, I need to correct - my PR is 25:16 for 4 miles.  So basically equivalent to yours (I thought you ran 25:15 for some reason).

             

            I ran that at one of those NYRR 4 milers in Central Park back in February of this year, when I was coming back, so that time isn't representative of my current fitness (I ran that same pace for 10 miles at Cherry Blossom 2 months later).

             

            2 weeks prior to the 4 miler, I ran 19:27 for a non-certified 5K in a Parkrun.  That was the Parkrun where I mis-judged the finish and stopped and then had to restart, so I was probably in 19:20 fitness at that time.  Hopefully that is helpful.

             

            Kcam - good luck with the hammy.  I'm glad you seem to have caught it early.

             

            Jim - compost was the right choice.  Undeniably.  And interesting observation on Big Sur- Boston execution - it would make sense that if you hammer Boston you'll be toast for Big Sur.  Someone like Wardian would have a very good sense of exactly how much to pull back on the first marathon (which for him might be very little).

             

            CK - I'm flattered.  Keep in mind, you've never met me.  I'm not that impressive in person.  And I'm pretty sure you'll be destroying my PRs in short order.

             

            [funny quasi related story - about 15 years ago I had a client in Texas prison, on death row (big law pro bono work).  They weren't treating him very well, so I had to write a slew of very angry letters to get them to do what they were required to do under the US Constitution (cruel and unusual punishment, and all the rest).   I write a very good angry letter, and got the job done.  But the concern was that as soon as the prison counsel met me in person, the fear would dissolve.  So when I went to Houston for my client's retrial, we had to hide me from him.]

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            OMR


              Dwave:  How much do you charge for angry letters? I’ve got a few I might want you to send...

              3/2:  Old Pueblo 50M

                Also, please quote Strongly Worded letters. I need to send one to my hamstring.  Thanks!

                PRs

                Jim E


                  rlk said...

                  ...  I had that leg the one year I did it and rather liked it.

                  If I recall correctly, you passed the woman who was leading the full marathon in the first half mile of leg 4 and got yourself a bicycle escort for the rest of the run.

                   

                  Dwave - Those uncertified Parkrun courses come with an asterisk, but hey, free! Nice work on the race, So your letter writing is a sort of superpower. I'm impressed that you do some heavy-duty criminal work pro-bono.

                   

                  Keen - That's a pretty good benchmark you chose.

                    Hi all,

                     

                    I am up on Sunday in Belfast! Definitely looking to a PB considering the cycle and the training I put in (and considering my current PB Smile )

                     

                    Today ran 7 miles with 2 miles in the middle at marathon pace (in the marathon course Smile ). I ran looking at heart beat rate and concenrtating on being slow and staying below 150. I ran a comfortable 7'30-40'' (15' in total). Looked promising. However, I was looking at the course profile during the weekend and it does not suit me... I am heavy and do not do well up hill and there is a fairly hilly bit at mile 16-18... and some others here and there...

                     

                    https://www.runningahead.com/logs/ba66e86c42964b8387773decfc75b8b7/courses/79d110ff84e5400e966957981832e17d

                     

                    I know I can lose about 2 minutes on the pace on this, so I might start a touch faster than 3h30 (maybe running at 7'55-7'50'' instead of 8' per mile) in the initial miles... I have the feeling that this will be the pacers strategy anyway looking at the course... I will then slow down on the hilly bit as required by my body, and wait until mile 21 to see where I am.

                    I will definitely keep your suggestions of last week in mind.

                     

                    now it's all easy and short stuff until Sunday Smile

                    PRs since re-started in 2013:

                    5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                    HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                     

                    Upcoming races:  

                    HM in summer (Lisburn maybe?) and then in September. (Belfast). Looking for a 10 K as well. 

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                      I know I can lose about 2 minutes on the pace on this, so I might start a touch faster than 3h30 (maybe running at 7'55-7'50'' instead of 8' per mile) in the initial miles... I have the feeling that this will be the pacers strategy anyway looking at the course... I will then slow down on the hilly bit as required by my body, and wait until mile 21 to see where I am.

                      I will definitely keep your suggestions of last week in mind.

                       

                      Can I write you an angry letter to talk you out of this strategy?

                       

                      Running your best marathon is about energy management.  By planning to start the race a bit hot, instead of easing into the pace, you'll burn extra glycogen unnecessarily, and that will come back to bite you hard.

                       

                      Ease into it, run steady, and back off the pace to maintain a constant effort on the hills, and then, if you are able, make it up on the back side.

                       

                      If you bank 10-20 seconds early on, you are going to pay for it in minutes on those hills and beyond.

                       

                      This is where doing what pacers do is not a good idea.  If you are racing a marathon, you are operating at your limit.  Your pacer is not.  So going out a bit fast won't cost the pacer the same way it will cost you, since "a bit fast" is still easy for the pacer.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                         

                        Can I write you an angry letter to talk you out of this strategy?

                         

                        no please... this is enough, no need for formal angry letters Smile I fully agree with you. The only thing it is not clear for me at the moment and probably brought me to write the post is: how am I sure 8' per mile is my current marathon pace. I did train with 7'30'' in mind for 2 months, then I got 10 days stop with a cold in March and I decided to back off a bit and only try 3h30' pace.

                        In the last 3/4 weeks I started looking at my heart beat rate and realize that I was running the segments where I wanted 8 per mile with 135-140 beat per minute (last year I was at 155). Currently my low HBR is around 45-47, while I have no idea where my high is... 185-190?

                         

                        However, I am now reconsidering my previous post, it was probably due to taper madness or fear of what happened before (I have never been able to run well at the end even running the initial miles very very slow). But I have never been trained like this year, so this year will probably be different and i should trust my body to be able to go through the marathon to the end.

                         

                        all this chat to say that I will probably stick with 8' mile until mile 21 as suggested

                        Smile

                        PRs since re-started in 2013:

                        5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                        HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                         

                        Upcoming races:  

                        HM in summer (Lisburn maybe?) and then in September. (Belfast). Looking for a 10 K as well. 

                        Brewing Runner


                        Cat Disliker

                           

                          How's the recovery going? Noticing any delayed effects of the big downhill?

                           

                          Definitely the calves (I should REALLY write that race review). I have a blister on my large right toe I've popped three times and it keeps refilling so that's kinda the worst part about it. Getting out of bed was still a little slow this morning and getting up from a chair wasn't really enjoyable yesterday. This might be normal for the effort and I haven't had this kind of performance recently to remember it. I was expecting the thighs to be sore. I'm pacing a 2:00 half marathon Sunday and the blister is really all I'm worried about.

                           

                          Oh yeah....My VDOT is either a 50.7 (half marathon) or a 51.7 (marathon) according to some spreadsheet I found online.

                           

                          dw so the win is the goal. When I won the local trail 5K it was kinda "meh" and a "big fish, little pond" moment so I'm glad you got to experience it at a bigger run. I always think about you when I see people cross one finish line and not both.

                           

                          rob good luck this weekend. At least your hill isn't in 70+F (24C for the metrically challenged) degree heat and in the last 3 miles of the race. The hill from 15.7 to about 17 doesn't look bad. about 100ft (33m?) over a mile and a little more than that for the second. The hill at 13 is about the same (50 ft over 1/2 mile so 33m/mile or whatever that is for kilometers). As for being sure 8:00/mi is current marathon pace....you WON'T know until race day. It's an assumption. I trained with 7:00 as my marathon pace. I ran 7:04. 7:00 isn't marathon pace for me (on a major downhill course with a tailwind and increasing temperatures).

                           

                          Submitted my race review for Run Revel. One of the last questions they ask is if I'm coming back (I'm probably not) and it's about 15 questions long. I sort of like the feeling of providing feedback on a race through an email. Since it's in the 3rd or 4th year I assume they're looking for any changes needed vs a 10 year old (local) race where they must assume they know what they're doing (race ended this year due to lack of participants). They could file it just like a strongly worded letter.

                          Oh yeah, they're moving up the race next year. Earlier in the month saying the weather is better (colder, less heat related problems for them to deal with). This year there was still snow at the top a week AFTER the day they've chosen for 2020. I'll just assume they know very little about the weather in the area.

                          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                          Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                          Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                          Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                          *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                           

                          2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                           

                          Brewing Runner


                          Cat Disliker

                             

                            Can I write you an angry letter to talk you out of this strategy?

                             

                            Running your best marathon is about energy management.  By planning to start the race a bit hot, instead of easing into the pace, you'll burn extra glycogen unnecessarily, and that will come back to bite you hard.

                             

                            Ease into it, run steady, and back off the pace to maintain a constant effort on the hills, and then, if you are able, make it up on the back side.

                             

                            If you bank 10-20 seconds early on, you are going to pay for it in minutes on those hills and beyond.

                             

                            This is where doing what pacers do is not a good idea.  If you are racing a marathon, you are operating at your limit.  Your pacer is not.  So going out a bit fast won't cost the pacer the same way it will cost you, since "a bit fast" is still easy for the pacer.

                            Where were YOU last Friday? I could have used this piece of information around 5:00am Saturday morning.

                            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                            Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                            Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

                            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                            *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

                             

                            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

                             

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              Where were YOU last Friday? I could have used this piece of information around 5:00am Saturday morning.

                               

                              Right here.   I don't remember you proposing to go out faster than goal pace.  Perhaps I missed it?

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              CommanderKeen


                              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                                DWave - I may beat your absolute PRs eventually, but even then if we started looking at age grading, etc. I'll have a lot of chasing to do.
                                I found the anecdote amusing.


                                Brew - Go with the big VDOT - you were racing a full, not a half.
                                I got to submit a review for the OKC marathon. It read like a strongly worded letter.

                                5k: 18:54 9/18 │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:28:01 4/18 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                Tunnel to Towers 5k 8/31

                                Wurst Race Half 10/5