Forums >Racing>I know the answer, I just need to hear it...
Well excuse me while I bow down to the holy and almighty!
Don't be so butt hurt, son.
BigDaddyJoe, just keep on keepin' on. You'll figure it out.
Prince of Fatness
OK guys, have at it. I'm ready.
Not at it at all.
Several of us already gave serious answers that had the added benefit not being unnecessarily complex and full of such debunked physio-babble as "lactic acid burn Bern."
Don't mind me.
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Your 10 mile race pace is supposed to be faster?
Of course. If you have trouble with that, may I recommend Baboon's excellent advice above, or for your convenience, copied here below. Admittedly this is for the full marathon, but you can apply it to the Half. Just run a good hard 1500 opener, because of halving everything. If you can break 3:30 in the 1500, you will know you are in great shape. Even if not, you can at least try.
Running a 5K PR the first 3.1 miles of a marathon will give you that good early pace and confidence boost you need to carry you through the rest of your 26.2 mile journey.
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
As far as debunked physio-babble, prove me wrong on how I explained it wrong, buddy.
I don't have (or am not willing to spend) the time to explain all the things that were wrong with what you posted.
But for starters...
1.) The OP didn't ask for a (pseudo) scientific explanation of why going out too fast is a bad strategy, he just asked us to confirm it.
2.) Lactate threshold is only the limiting factor in races lasting from about 20 minutes to about an hour. In an 800m or mile race, LT doesn't even come into play. In a marathon, if LT comes into play, well, you were fucked anyway and going under LT will probably just speed up the process of your crash and burn, sparing you having to drag your ass all the way to the finish.
3.) Lactate build up is coincidental with but is not the cause of fatigue.
4.) What my friend from Nantucket said.
Runners run
The Running Stan
The OP said, "and tell me why I've got it all wrong...".
Someone asked the OP, "What distance race are we talking about? Are you going for time or are you racing specific individuals?"
Then the OP responded:
I'm just talking in general, even a 5K. I am currently training for my first marathon, but have done 2 half marathons so far. I don't race individuals, just try to get my best possible time.
At the bottom of my post, I do write in comparison for smaller and larger distances races. If smaller than an hour's worth of distance, you go the appropriate amount faster than LT. If larger than an hour's worth, then you go slower the appropriate amount. And correct that 800m race that LT would not come into play because you rely more on the creatine-phoshate system at that point. A mile, LT does come into play, but to a smaller degree than say a 10K or HM, or even full's.
Did you even read everything I wrote? I also wrote about the H+ ions. The real culprit. I guess you only wanted to read what you wanted to read?
Hey, I just want to learn and get better. if I said something way wrong, then correct my understanding. Just insulting me by saying "physio-babble" and "added benefit not being unnecessarily complex ".
You still haven't proven that what i said was wrong and still like to know how.
You started with: "Does anyone want a serious answer?"
If you didn't mean to insult everyone else who had already provided a serious answer, then my bad.
As for H+ ions? Other people on here care about the science. I just care about what kind of training and racing it takes to get faster.
"Run too fast and you accumulate too much lactate and ruins your time."
That's the whole ballgame. ... Is that the one you like?
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
You started with: "Does anyone want a serious answer?" If you didn't mean to insult everyone else who had already provided a serious answer, then my bad. As for H+ ions? Other people on here care about the science. I just care about what kind of training and racing it takes to get faster.
I said that following the picture everyone was joking around about the dad who ran the BM, the "don't listen to the pussies & go out hard and as fast as you can in the marathon" joke, and a few other not so serious ones just proceeding my post.
And yeah, I am kind of into the science cause it helps me determine how I train and get faster.
Let bye-gones be bye-gones?
"Run too fast and you accumulate too much lactate and ruins your time." That's the whole ballgame. ... Is that the one you like?
Yeah, i guess that is a good summeration, except as mikeymike pointed out, it really isn't the lactate, but the H+ ions that ruins it. I just didn't feel like explaining it in even more excrutiating detail. My bad on that one.
Wow, I appreciate all the responses, even the funny/sarcastic ones. No need to get into arguments!
The miracle isn't that I finished, the miracle is that I had the courage to start.
No need to get into arguments!
It was just a minor squirmish. Mr. Finn needed a popcorn break anyway.
My problem isn't with the second half of the race at all. I got no problem producing the expected fade on that second lap.
My problem is that I just can't get that 50 second first lap.
So, you probably don't want to rathole on this any farther, but...
The elites run marathons as close as they can to LT. If that is not LT "coming into play", then what would you call the limiting factor in marathons?
To me, it seems that the limiting factor only changes once you go longer than marathon. The marathon is kind of a magic distance, because it's just about as far as you can run almost entirely glycogen fueled. Once you get much longer, you can't take in supplemental carbs at the rate you would like to burn them.
Then I think the limiting factors get way more complicated, and pretty individual. Ultimately I think it comes down to accumulated muscle damage, if nothing else gets you first. But I wish I understood this better. There's much less of a science of ultra training than there is of marathon training.
Anyway, to the OP, as others have said:
-- Yes, you're an idiot.
-- Holding back at the beginning is more important the longer the race is (and therefore even more important for ultras than it is for marathons).
Feeling the growl again
And correct that 800m race that LT would not come into play because you rely more on the creatine-phoshate system at that point.
Most sources indicate that even at 800m, the majority of the energy for the 800m comes from aerobic metabolism: http://www.coachr.org/energy_system_contribution_in_tr.htm
The creatine phosphate system is then only a smaller percentage of the anaerobic contribution.
Don't get too serious about the science. Real-life experience has done far more to improve training methodologies than science. This statement coming from a molecular biologist and biochemist.
I stand by my OP being useful and serious. Every experienced runner knows that going out too fast is going to cost you more later in the race than you gain early, except at 800m and below. There are plenty of data from elite races and WRs to demonstrate this.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills