1600/3200 Track shape (Read 384 times)

what I sense as hostility.  I could be wrong, but that's how I took your post.

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Many, I can't put a percentage on it, of the high school coaches I know are coaching track and XC because it is a passion of theirs.  Most have been runners since their own high school days.  Where I am, the idea of a coach just being some casual person from the building is a foreign concept.  Not saying it doesn't happen as I am sure it does.  It's just not my experience.

 

I'm surprised sometimes by the nastiness I see on this board.  It's not the norm, but as a frequent reader and rare poster, I am disheartened by the more than occasional hostility.  I have used the training log here since the beginning and really do enjoy reading the forums.  But I have always felt there is a hierarchy and a demand for deference to the most frequent posters, best runners, and to those who would invest the energy in making this a vibrant community.

My post was not intended as hostility.  For sure, I have grown awful weary of internet nastiness and negativity.  Reasonable people can disagree.

However it is my experience that despite what I am sure is the best of intentions...on average...high school coaching of distance runners is awful and coaches are...on AVERAGE...pretty poor in their knowledge of how to develop distance athletes.  The possession of such a skill set is completely a separate issue from their desire to do what is best for their athletes or a passion for the sport.  My HS coach was awful at developing my skills as an athlete, but wonderful at instilling a love of the sport in me.  So in the long run he was a great influence on me, even if during HS he worked against me reaching my potential.  In his 70s he is still working to develop local talent, I value the influence he had on me even if it was not always on target.

You should not feel a need to cushion your posting on some assumption of hierarchy based on post count or frequency.  Such a thing is absurd and frankly a personal pet peeve of mine.  If someone wants me to support what I say my posting frequency is the last thing I would fall upon.

I wouldn't encourage my kids to "read Spaniel" if I thought you were a jerk.  And I'm not sharing my stipend with you either!    I also tell them to read manfromnantucket, so what the hell do I know.

Seriously, I want my kids to succeed.  I don't know everything and I coach in a time when I can supplement my coaching for free by directing them to good sources.  They're high school kids, so they're savvy.

As for coaches, you are right - good intentions are nice, but they don't equate to competence.  Competence doesn't equate to execution.  Enthusiasm and commitment are important, but a foundation in knowledge is fundamental.

I know many, many coaches who have more than just a basic knowledge of training distance runners.  As you know, there is a wrong way to do it.  I do know bad, but well-intended coaches.  I also know coaches who are clueless and don't care either.  Fortunately, where I am, they are uncommon and usually don't last long.

I have peers with advanced knowledge in bio-mechanics, training theory, and all the "science stuff."  I don't count myself among them, but they are so willing to share, I have learned so much from them.  And they ain't getting any of my stipend either!

My 2 cents on high school coaching.

I had a pretty good one. He quit my sophomore year due to sickness. He died of cancer my junior year.

He was replaced by a very good coach. Under my second coach, every single distance school record went down, and he had 2 boys state XC championships in 5 years after 1 in like 30.

But, he wasn't a teacher. He was a business owner in the community. A teacher who used to run track decided he wanted to be the coach, and because of the rules, he got the job and they let the other guy go. The team went on a pretty significant downhill slide. Coaches here make roughly $500 a semester.

I definitely think different areas have a different class of average coach. When I was in high school, most schools had someone halfway decent. We did have a guy having kids run around with medicine balls and weights and stuff like that. But most of all, people were doing some kind of training that they probably picked up in a book or something like that.

I've seen in other areas where generally the average performer is much slower, and what little I've looked at coaching, it was far less competent. When I was in high school, we had the opportunity to travel some. I remember that people in California raced differently than people in Nevada. And the one time I ran an invite in Utah it was a whole different style of racing.

All I say is that you could both be right. Spaniel might be in a pocket of crappy coaching, where McSpartan85 is in a pocked of good coaching. Philosophies might be different. When I was in HS, we thought it was weird how robotically even the pacing was in Utah compared to what we were used to. When we went to Northern California, we were amazed at how fast everyone went out. Southern California seemed to have more sit and kickers. I think that the predominant strategy and quality is regional.

Did a 5 mile steady/tempo run on Monday at 6:20 pace and today I ran a 8x400 with 70 seconds standing rest. Ran the first two in 72 and 71 and then the rest were 70's. Last couple were pretty tough but I probably could have done 1-2 more at that pace but I would have been absolutely shot. The meet is in  2 days and the 32 is first and then I'll do the 8 and 16 after. So I'm thinking I'll start the 32 out at 10:20 and see how it goes.

You young guys and speed.  I could easily pop 5 miles @ 6:20 now....likely close to 6 flat....but race 10:20 for 3200 off that?  Never.

+1

If I could go back and tell HS me one thing about running, it would be to run a lot more easy miles.

 

But if I could go back and tell old me two things, the second would be to race more patiently and not go out so fast, whether it was the mile, two-mile, or CC.  I started to understand this when I was a senior, and it really paid dividends, but I wish I figured it out earlier  -- finishing races with a 65-sec last 400m was a lot more fun than starting them that way and blowing up.  The races I ran really well and was proud of were patient efforts involving even or negative splits.  The other 80% of them were go-out-too-fast-and-die-disasters.

 High school you wouldn't listen to some weird old dude.

That is the problem.  Wisdom is wasted on us old farts and speed is wasted on the young.

I am in my first year as an official distance coach for a local high school team -- have enjoyed reading this...

I have heard that you can't win the race in the first quarter mile, but you can certainly lose it.  That is one thing I will be trying to drill into my team!