The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 421 times)

SteveChCh


Hot Weather Complainer

    watson - Good to see you slowly building back up again.  Sorry to hear about your cat - even if elderly, it's still hard to get used to not having them around.

     

    darkwave - Hopefully that's good news in that it gives you your answer and the tough part is perhaps behind you?  Also hopefully it's something you are coping with psychologically.  Good week of pool running and listening to your body.

     

    Hash - really impressive week with volume and workouts.

     

    Flavio - Good to see those numbers heading up again.  It will be interesting to see how the 1500 metres go, I used to love that race at school.  I'm guessing it won't be tactical in terms of placings for you, you're just gunning for time?

     

    Mark - Huge week!  And good work getting through the long run when fatigued from normal life.

     

    James - I guess it's good that it's not a single serious issue?

     

    piwi - really nice week.  I hope you manage to avoid that nasty bug.  Gastro is horrific for short periods, definitely worse than Covid.

     

    me - Another week of the slow build up of volume, and slow slowing down of my easy pace.  I'm pretty happy with how that's gone so far, and I'm still aiming to slow down some more.

     

     

    Weekly for period: From: 30/05/2022 To 05/06/2022

    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in m
    30/05 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:04 09:18 05:47 0
    30/05 70 mins easy pace 8.98 14.45 01:10:34 07:51 04:53 20
    30/05 Strides 0.76 1.22 00:05:43 07:31 04:41 0
    01/06 Warm up 0.32 0.52 00:02:54 09:04 05:35 0
    01/06 70 mins incl. 6 x 1km @ HMP with 1 minute recoveries 9.34 15.03 01:10:09 07:31 04:40 9
    02/06 Recovery 5.54 8.91 00:47:46 08:37 05:22 11
    03/06 Warm up 0.33 0.54 00:03:02 09:12 05:37 0
    03/06 Easy 10km 6.25 10.06 00:50:53 08:08 05:03 10
    03/06 Strides 0.74 1.19 00:05:23 07:16 04:31 0
    04/06 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:09 09:16 05:50 0
    04/06 Long incl. 3 x (2km @ MP, 1km easy) 15.26 24.55 02:00:49 07:55 04:55 29
    05/06 Recovery 4.02 6.47 00:36:02 08:58 05:34 7

    Total distance: 84.02km

    Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

    Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

    Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

      Hash your mate did that sub 3 pretty comfortably with that fast finish. My mate Simon has been trying for sub 3 for 9 years so was very happy.

       

      Steve I think it's pretty understandable that you run what feels easy at 5 min km pace or faster especially as you are in your 30s. Alot of my 30 year old strava mates do too. You guys recover fast.

       

      Flavio I hope you can get your mileage up as you have so much untapped potential.

       

      Watson that's a good low heart rate. I was around 120 today at 5.30 km pace. My kids are going to be devastated when any of our cats die.

      Your Mangaroa run today went past my old hood when I lived there in the late 70s.

       

      DW TRT is not much of a thing here with kiwi men as far as I'm aware although maybe it is. I see US adverts for it when I watch Nba etc and they try and sell it on sex drive and retaining muscle.

      I hope you can get it all figured out soon.

      50+ PBs -  

      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

      Somewhere in between is about right "      

       

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

        Watson - Sorry to hear about the cat. Mom and Dad recently adopted a kitty and they’re calling him Cafe, which means Coffee in Portuguese. The entire family is now in love with Cafe.

         

        Mark - LOL yeah, weather complaining is kind of mandatory here. I was thinking you’d love the weather here in Porto. Even in the hottest days in summer, there’s always a very cool breeze from the ocean and so long as you stay in the shade the heat never gets to you.

         

        Hashi - I’m always impressed just how much far ahead you guys plan your races.

         

        Steve - LOL I’ll definitely be gunning for time and trying not to be the last one on my heat. But you still gotta deal with traffic and other runners, avoid running on lane 2 etc.

        I think your coach is doing you good. You have been very consistent for the past year or so.

         

        Piwi - One thing is that after the marathon I realised a big mistake which was to reduce the strength training and that bit me hard on race day when my muscles collapsed on a symphony of cramps.

        And that limits a bit how much I can increase mileage as it impacts how far I can go especially on the 1 or 2 days after strength training when I get the jelly legs.

        But it's good investment and now when I increase mileage it will be on top of a solid base.

        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: 10K Family race

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        zebano


           

          Those impromptu discussions are what drive many developers away. If you are doing any kind of deep focus work, any interruption sets you back 40 minutes to an hour.

           

          I actually share an office and love to banter with my coworker. That said, he knows that when my headphones are on, I don't want to talk. If you  set expectations it works really well. I did find it's a lot of work to stay in touch when working remotely.

           

          Piwi great week you're really getting some volume in, Flavio,  good luck with the 1500, one of the best parts of them is how quick a training cycle is.

           

          James  those hamstrings are annoying. Is it better on Sunday after your day off? I notice you don't have any really short days there. p.s. I hate suggesting to run less but I wonder if you're just loading it a little too much.

           

          Mark  great week. I do not miss the 3AM child care. That was horrible for the running (and life in general).

           

          Hash  Another big week and I'm glad you liked the Ice Cream Sammich. it really is a fun one. I've done it with friends before which gets rather non-workout like if one of you is really good at shorter stuff and one is better at the tempo work. DW yup I think you are. It takes a certain level of masochism to not prefer breaks in your workouts but it's probably better training

           

          Wow Lauren really does have some good workouts, I've never tried the Freddy, you'll have to report back on that. Did you see you can do the Tailor Swift??

           

          Caitlinn  ugg sounds horrible. I hope you can get up and at least moving around the house soon.

           

          Darkwave  I have no idea what FSH is but I hope the effects of menopause are something you can sort out so you can get back to your usual running.

           

          Watson - on the mend, excellent! Sorry about the cat.

           

          Steve  Sub 5/Km easy pace? Great week and workouts overall but that suggests you're overrunning the easy days or since you're nailing the workouts that your 3:20 goal is a bit soft. Sorry to channel the other thread over here =)

          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

          zebano


            I had a nice fun recovery week. Not much of note except I did a sprint triathlon on Sunday. The real takeaway is that slotting the saddle further forward really made my hips happier which allowed me to run a little better. 5k was notably long (3.32 miles by my watch) but strava says I kept a pretty consistent 6:45-50pace for the whole thing which makes me happy as I didn't look at the watch.

             

            Official Results:

             

            PIGMAN Sprint

            https://results.truetimeracing.com/myresults.aspx?uid=16535-949-1-85343 5/20 AG,

            AG (5/20 people) results

            12th swim  - 500m 11:37

            6th bike - 25k 48:38

            2nd run (29th OA) bike 5k 22:19

             

            only 18 miles total all week but lots of walking the dog.

             

            I'm gonna take 2-3 days off and start building toward the Twin Cities Marathon. I'm trying to find a 10 miler or half to fit into the schedule as a fitness check but I'm not finding much outside of Labor Day which is a really hard for me to race for family reasons. There's also a 8.7mile trail race but I'm never sure if that gives me enough feedback to make it useful or if it's just a good way to practice racing.

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Zebano - Nice effort in the tri, you've got a very solid base for the marathon and that cross training will serve you really well.

               

              My easy pace early in the week was too fast and I started slowing it down towards the end of the week.  I agree, it should not be faster than 5 mins/km.

               

              piwi - You're being very generous with how you've aged me...I think I can get away with faster easy pace in half training but with what I have up ahead, I do need to address it before I run myself into the ground or injuries.

              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

              Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

              Marky_Mark_17


                Hash - I need to come up with better names, clearly.  I only ever nicknamed one workout and that was the "Pain Train" (3 x 12 min hard with 3 min recoveries).

                 

                Flavio - OK I always forget that no matter how rough I think the weather is here, yours is almost certainly less ideal for running!

                 

                Steve - excellent week.  What's the plan for Wellington?

                 

                Zebano - oh god. Those people that insist on talking to me when I've got my headphones on are one of the things I really dislike about the office.  Nice job on the sprint triathlon.  Always interesting how adjustments on the different disciplines can make a big impact overall.  Aren't triathletes taught to swim mostly using their arms so they save their legs for the bike and run leg?

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                  Mark - When someone just starts talking to me when I have headphones on, I pretend I can't see or hear them.  My office is very noisy which isn't great when I'm really trying to focus on debugging or writing code for a complex issue.

                   

                  I was originally thinking about a 1:35 in Wellington, so 10 secs/km quicker than goal marathon pace.  My coach has marked me down for 1:37 so maybe slightly slower than I'd planned - makes sense because I will have had a reasonably big week leading into it.  It's a really good chance to pick a pace that isn't easy, but isn't overly uncomfortable either, and try to really nail it.  Any quicker kms need to be averaged out is the plan from the coach (i.e. if targeting 4:35/km and I do a 4:30, I need to run a 4:40 or a 4:37 then 4:38 etc).

                   

                  Of course, if Wellington turns on one of its stellar days with hurricane force winds, I'll do some major adjusting.

                  Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                  Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                  Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                  Marky_Mark_17


                     

                    Of course, if Wellington turns on one of its stellar days with hurricane force winds, I'll do some major adjusting.

                     

                    Yeah I reckon the toughest negative split going around for a HM would be that course under prevailing northerly on a bad day!  The marathon perhaps not quite so much, but similar.

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                    Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Hurricane-force winds in Wellington? We don’t know what you are talking about…!

                      50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:28:11 (Sept '22 - Sandy Point Off-Road Half) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Wellington Road Champs); - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22); Track Mile 5:32 (2021)

                      2022 Goals: Half Perish 4:00 pace - Road/Track 10km 3:45 pace - 5km 3:35 pace

                      2022 Races: Whanganui 3 Bridges - Dec 11th

                       

                      flavio1980


                      Intl. correspondent

                        Zeb - Nice job at the sprint tri. 

                         

                        Mark - Heh maybe back in Brazil. Portugal has just perfect weather I’d say.

                         

                        me - Very tough workout today, probably my toughest as it's now 11 days to the race.

                        1000 meters @ 1500m pace with 2 min 30 rest then 5x100m with 1 min rest - This is enough to kill your legs

                        1000 meters @ 1500m pace with 2 min 30 rest then 5x100m with 1 min rest - This is to kill your dead legs again

                        1000 meters @ 1500m pace - This is to erase your soul

                         

                        The good news is that I've done it about the same paces as I did before my last 1500m time trial back in 2019.

                        The bad news is that the hamstring trouble has not yet cleared up.

                        Tomorrow I'll have the last strong strength training session, followed by a lighter session on Monday and an even lighter session next Friday.

                        In terms of workouts, I'll probably have a few more on Friday, Sunday and Tuesday but at a lower volume than today (today it was 4K worth of faster paces).

                        The race is Saturday the 18th at about 6pm, not ideal for me as I much prefer races in the morning.

                        I'll try to go over there on the day before to avoid having the traveling on the same day as the race.]

                        The biggest issue will be to keep my mind away from the race during that Saturday.

                        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                        Up next: 10K Family race

                        Tool to generate Strava weekly

                        zebano


                           

                          Piwi - One thing is that after the marathon I realised a big mistake which was to reduce the strength training and that bit me hard on race day when my muscles collapsed on a symphony of cramps.

                          And that limits a bit how much I can increase mileage as it impacts how far I can go especially on the 1 or 2 days after strength training when I get the jelly legs.

                          But it's good investment and now when I increase mileage it will be on top of a solid base.

                           

                          Clearly I approve of the strength work, but I'm always bit suspicious of no strength work being the cause of jelly legs in a marathon. Usually that's just lack of training or going out too fast, but IIRC you had a really good build up so who knows. I was going to ask if you taper the strength for your mile race but you already answered that!  I saw that workout today, super impressive. I hope you have at least 10 days to resurrect your legs before you race.

                           

                          Mark  yes no legs in the swim is certainly a thing that's brought up a lot, especially for amateurs and I'm going to be honest, the pros don't do it, and the amateurs only get away with it because wetsuits are so buoyant. One thing that kicking does is keep your body aligned properly and often when you don't kick your legs will sink which basically creates a lot of drag. but I digress. Actually did anyone see the Sub 7 / sub 8 project. Like the breaking 2 but I think they massively underestimated how much time they could save via drafting on the bike and all 4 people blew away their goal times. Most impressively Kristian Blummenfeldt ran a 2:30 marathon at the end of the ironman .... damn.

                           

                          Headphones = leave me alone!! Glad other people are equally annoyed.

                           

                          Steve is Wellington just a training run then? Not a chance to PR?

                          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                          zebano


                            If anyone wants to go down a rabbit hole and read about a study on running economy I found this rather interesting.

                             

                            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5473370/

                             

                            I'm not sure anything is really actionable but I might try and thinking about keeping my hips more stable and my knees straighter as running form cues.

                            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                            ccoakley


                              Zebano/Piwi I read this in Amby Burfoot's newsletter and thought you guys would like it /feel vinidicated 

                               

                              Salt depletion doesn’t cause of marathon cramping. Consider strength training

                              Many of the marathoners I know are obsessed with preventing late-marathon muscle cramps, and a lot are convinced that salt and other electrolytes are the answer. The research generally disagrees, pointing instead to inappropriate pacing and muscle fatigue. The latest research paper does the same. Of 84 marathoners who agreed to a battery of tests before and after their race, 24% complained of cramping. Their sodium and potassium levels were not different from the non-crampers, but their muscle biopsies were. Conclusion: The marathon crampers did “not exhibit greater degree of dehydration and electrolyte depletion after the marathon but displayed significantly higher concentrations of muscle damage biomarkers.” Also, the non crampers were almost twice as likely to have included strength training in their preparation period. More at The J of Strength & Conditioning Research.

                              5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                               

                               

                              zebano


                                huh so Amby disagrees with me, that's a good reference.

                                 

                                I saw you got out for a walk today Caitlin. I hope that means things are improving for you.

                                1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)