The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 386 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Longboat - I definitely would have preferred a crosswind for the whole thing, but what can you do? I passed on a couple other 5ks earlier this year because they were on airport runways. At first my thought was "super flat!", immediately followed by "wait, runways are setup to go against prevailing winds. no thanks".
    That kind of running math is fun on one hand before/after an event, but certainly nothing I could ever do on a run. "tangent shorter than not tangent" is about all the math I'm capable of mid-race.


    Watson - Nice catch.


    Fred - My workout today also shifted in that same manner. Looks like you had a nice workout.
    I totally didn't adjust properly for the conditions, something I partially blame on this being nearly my first HMe workout this year. I certainly felt when the crosswind picked up and some cooler air blew in - too bad that didn't happen half an hour earlier.

    5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

    Wurst Race Half - 10/8

    Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

    CIM - 12/4

    Fredford66


    Running Musician

      Keen - I always struggle with my first few HM workouts of a training cycle.  Throw in some wind issues and I can certainly see how yours might not have gone as smoothly as you wanted.

       

      I notched up my HM training by a mile today, running 9 with the middle 6 at HM pace and getting 147 feet of elevation, which is about 140 more than I'm likely to see at my fall half marathons.  Coming two days after my longer track workout, today's run left my legs feeling pretty tired, but it's all for the good.

      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

      Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        Fred - 6 miles at HMe is really getting up there - nicely done.

        Getting as much or more elevation gain as my race in shorter-than-race-distance runs is also a goal of mine for workouts/LRs.

        5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

        Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

        CIM - 12/4

        Fredford66


        Running Musician

          Fred - 6 miles at HMe is really getting up there - nicely done.

          Getting as much or more elevation gain as my race in shorter-than-race-distance runs is also a goal of mine for workouts/LRs.

           

          Thanks.  As to the elevation, when the race is on a barrier island and the biggest "hill" is up onto the elevated boardwalk, it's not hard to get more elevation in training.  When I start training for the NY marathon next year (600' of elevation according to Garmin, but I think that fails to include the bridges), I'll definitely be looking for training routes with more hills (I have some in mind already), so I definitely agree with your goal of getting elevation in training.

           

          This week, and the next 5 weeks, are what I consider the core of my training program.  I'm running 6 miles at near 10k pace in my track workouts (total, not all at once) and my pace workouts will include 6, and then 7, miles at HM pace.  My training up until now has been getting me ready for these six weeks, and these six weeks will get me ready for the races.

          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

          Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
          Marky_Mark_17


            It's been a week of terrible weather here - windy and wet.  Forecast for tomorrow actually looks OK though.  Bit of a NW breeze and warm-ish for this time of year but otherwise pretty good considering how the last week has been.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

            Up next: TBC

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              Big congrats to Hash and Watson on their 10k races,

              Good luck Mark, it's a balmy spring day here.

              50+ PBs -  

              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

              Somewhere in between is about right "      

               

              Marky_Mark_17


                Yes awesome job Hashiritai on a big PB and well done Watson also, very close to a PB.

                 

                Unusually sunny and warm up here today too Piwi so that might be interesting... haven't run in conditions like this since like April lol.

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                Up next: TBC

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                Marky_Mark_17


                  Interesting 10km race today.  I started probably a little bit quick with the lead group, and backed off after around 1.5km or so .  Unfortunately this put me in no-mans land so I had to work pretty hard on what was a fairly windy day.  Surprisingly hot too, 19C / 66F  and sunny which was a real shock to the system after training in temps more like 8-10C at 6am in the dark for the last few months.

                   

                  On the plus side, I tend to need a rustbuster after a longer block of training.  This was definitely it.  I was around 25 seconds off my 10k road PB (set on the same course), so probably not too bad given the conditions.  The splits were a bit messy and I had a few dark moments I had to battle through, but that was definitely a good test.  I also had to dig it in hard towards the end with Tim Hitchcock bearing down on me but still had enough there to out-gas him with a good sprint to the line.  Good reminder of the varying levels of 10k pain and their relative survivability - I thought I was battling on lap 3 of 5, but I wasn't REALLY battling until the second half of lap 5 and even then I managed to kick it up for a sprint finish the last 200m or so.

                   

                  On the minus side, I definitely would've liked to be a little quicker.  I was 30-40 seconds off Nick Moore and Greg Darbyshire who I thought I'd be closer to given I've had 3 months of pretty good training, but they stuck with that lead group for longer and were probably all a little more acclimatised to the heat than me (and most had raced more recently).  However I think I made a tactically bad decision there and should actually have stayed with the lead group for longer... I may have faded a bit more but I think the benefit of being in the pack would've outweighed that.

                   

                  (and yes, the course has been officially measured... it was actually the National Champs course in 2019-20. For some reason GPS is all over the show here and I've seen everything from 9.9km to 10.4km in the past)

                   

                  So I think main learnings for Nationals in 2 weeks are...

                  (1) Race smarter.  If conditions are good, start a little more conservatively.  If conditions are windy, don't be afraid to stick with a group that's going a little quick because it's probably better than being isolated.  There will be no chance of it being that warm in Wellington but it could be windy.

                  (2) There are depths of 10k hurt and I'd probably forgotten them.  Be prepared to suffer a bit more because it wasn't actually that bad until right near the end.

                  (3) Relax!  After lap 2, my wife (who knows very little about running but is a good reader of my body language) yelled at me to relax.  It was great advice.  Lot of work stress lately which doesn't help either and I was probably in my own head a bit much before the race.

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 15/08/2022 To 21/08/2022

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in m
                  15/08 That run with the Monday usual through Wynyard 4.45 7.16 00:31:14 07:01 04:22 10
                  16/08 That run where it was good practice for the Bruce Pulman Wind Tunnel 8.90 14.32 00:55:02 06:11 03:51 44
                  17/08 That run with more wind 6.85 11.02 00:43:53 06:24 03:59 114
                  18/08 That run where you remind yourself it’s good practice in case it’s like this on race day 6.85 11.02 00:41:54 06:07 03:48 115
                  20/08 That run where my shoes hadn’t quite dried out from Thursday 4.45 7.16 00:28:31 06:24 03:59 29
                  21/08 Warm up 1.41 2.26 00:10:07 07:10 04:29 5
                  21/08 Auckland Road Champs 2022, 33:42 6.13 9.86 00:33:40 05:30 03:25 50

                  Total distance: 62.80km (39.03 imperial Jolly Rogers)

                   

                   

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                  Up next: TBC

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  watsonc123


                    (and yes, the course has been officially measured... it was actually the National Champs course in 2019-20. For some reason GPS is all over the show here and I've seen everything from 9.9km to 10.4km in the past)

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    My 10km PR measured 9.88km for me, on a measured course - the exact same course that gave me 10.09km yesterday.  I remember someone suggesting my PR might have been short...

                     

                    I saw your GPS results and it looked like it would have been a painful second half.  Very good time none the less. And thanks for the shout out.

                     

                    A couple of interesting differences between the Auck and Wgtn champs:

                    - Wgtn had the 35-49 years age group, but Auck had that split into three age groups.  I think NZ is 35-49?

                    - Wgtn women 35-49 does 10km, but it looks like Auck was 5km.

                    - Hiro Tanimoto is going to be really hard to beat at NZ 35-49.  He won overall at Wgtn yesterday in 31:08 (25s ahead of second).  Interestingly he races in the NB RC Elite v2 which some people believe is only for half-marathon up, but clearly not.

                    - Wgtn had roughly the same number of competitors overall the races as Auck did.  Is that normal turnout for Auck?  I'd assumed with ~triple the population your races would be bigger.

                     

                    My week was good.  A mini taper for the race, which went moderately well in 40:16.

                     

                    It had been very wet but had cleared for the event.  Well, all the races beforehand.  About 5 minutes before the race it started raining pretty hard, and stayed that way the whole race.  My race photos are never great, but apart from non-ideal form and looking like I'm in pain, I also looked like a drowned rat yesterday.

                     

                    It's 1.24km uphill at about 20m elevation.  Then straight back down.  Four laps.  Plus about 40m extra at the end.

                     

                    I've raced it two times previously.  Both times started too quick.

                    But not this time... except I did it again although not quite as bad.  Was on track for sub 40 at the half way, but had a slightly slow third lap.  And although lap four was better, I couldn't speed up enough and went through in 40:16.

                     

                    So roughly a 'B' goal achieved.

                     

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 15/08/2022 To 21/08/2022

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in m
                    15/08 Evening Run - 5 Strides 6.26 10.06 00:50:01 07:59 04:58 18
                    17/08 Afternoon Run - 3 * Kingsley Heights Water Tank 8.26 13.29 01:12:45 08:48 05:28 358
                    18/08 Evening Run 3.11 5.01 00:26:26 08:30 05:17 6
                    20/08 Warm Up 1.25 2.01 00:09:35 07:40 04:46 4
                    20/08 Wellington Road Champs 10km 40:16 6.27 10.09 00:40:15 06:25 03:59 78
                    21/08 Football Ref - Girls 18th Grade 1st Half 1.53 2.47 00:20:00 13:04 08:06 0
                    21/08 Football Ref - Girls 18th Grade 2nd Half 1.50 2.41 00:35:55 23:57 14:54 0

                    Total distance: 45.34km

                    PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                     

                    40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                    Fredford66


                    Running Musician

                      Watson - Congratulations on the PB.  A "B" goal is a nice thing to hit.  I seldom see 15-year age groups here; they're usually 10-year or 5-year groups.  What was the size of the field in your race?

                       

                      Mark - Interesting analysis of the decision not to run with the group.  I've had people tell me that I have enough HM experience that I need not run with a pace group, but I also find there are benefits to running with a group of people rather than alone.  Has the rust been officially busted?

                       

                      45.3 miles (72.9 km) for me - my 5th highest weekly total in the past year.  Would have been higher had it not been for some digestive issues on Monday.

                       

                      Date ▲ Type Distance Duration Pace Temp
                      8/15/2022 Easy   3.1 mi    32:49 10:36   64
                      8/16/2022 Easy   6.0 mi 1:03:01 10:31   63
                      8/17/2022 Interval 10.2 mi 1:36:07   9:25   64
                      8/19/2022 Pace   9.0 mi 1:22:20   9:09   64
                      8/20/2022 Easy   6.8 mi 1:13:44 10:51   70
                      8/21/2022 Easy 10.2 mi 1:44:32 10:15   67
                      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                      Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9

                        Fred nice job on the mileage.

                         

                        Watson it looks like you are in sub 40 shape on a flat course. That's very impressive after the setbacks you had this year.

                         

                        Mark it was very much the first day of spring type weather yesterday. Probably seems a fine temp by the northern hemisphere folk but when you have just come out of winter, a bit of a shock.

                         

                        I don't participate in these regional road Champs but ours were held in Cambridge. I notice a 70 year old guy ran 40 mins flat. Same guy who ran a 1.23 half with me a few years ago when he was about 65.

                        Also Sally Gibbs who runs for Whanganui now ran 36.50 in her 55 to 59 age group.

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Hash - Well done on a good race and very fast time.

                           

                           

                          My 10km PR measured 9.88km for me, on a measured course - the exact same course that gave me 10.09km yesterday.  I remember someone suggesting my PR might have been short...

                           

                          watson - Also a really good race and I agree with piwi that you are probably in sub 40 shape.  This race at least confirms your PB was not on a short course.  It doesn't matter how long a course measure on GPS or if it is certified, some people will say it's short if it's in NZ now because of a couple of park runs which measured short.

                           

                          Mark - You're pretty close to PB form given the less than ideal conditions and race rust.  If you get one of the 5 or so nice days in Wellington for 2022 I think you could get a great result.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                          watsonc123


                            Sally Gibbs ran the Dorne Cup Cross Country which is part of the Wgtn inter-club series.  She came 3rd or 4th overall in a strong field, she is seriously good for someone in her late fifties.

                             

                            The Wgtn Road Champs course is a quick course, in part due to the strong field.  The elevation is not as hard as it looks.  It would be much harder having a course which is 2.5km downhill for 80, and then back up hill.  Being dry might have help a bit on Saturday.

                             

                            Fred - Nice week.  It was NOT a PR.  Although it is my second best 10km, although I've only raced 5-6 in total.

                            PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                             

                            40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              Watson - ironically, I think I might've been the one that thought it was short!  That was probably before I found out that all regional champs events have to be on measured courses.  The Auckland one has measured 10.1, 10.2, 10.1, 9.9 for me so I guess sometimes the GPS can be a bit errant, with the Wellington one having a lot of trees around it that probably makes it worse.

                               

                              Re Masters, the NZ Champs split is 35-49, and 50+ for the overall finisher medals and teams medals.  However they do run age group medals in 5 year brackets.

                               

                              As for those overall Masters places... it really depends who shows up.  Hiro would be a likely winner, but Andy Good has just hit 35 also and ran low-2:20's at National Marathon Champs a few months ago.  Simon Mace broke 32 mins yesterday in Auckland despite the conditions.

                               

                              The Masters field at Auckland was probably as strong as it has been in a few years.  But overall the turnout was pretty normal for Auckland Champs... if anything a little light on the senior men and women.  No-one likes that course at Bruce Pulman Park and I think if they were to move it somewhere else I guarantee the numbers would increase.  But Wellington still gets a very strong turnout relative to population, I think as the club scene is particularly strong down there.

                               

                              Fred - congrats on a big week!  And yes the rust was most definitely busted (I did not enjoy all of said busting but it was worthwhile).

                               

                              Steve - yeah, hoping for one of those 5 good days haha.  I was a little disappointed with yesterday's time but I checked and... it really was warm yesterday.  I thought it was warm-ish the day I ran my 10k PB on that course and it was 14C vs. 19C yesterday (and a lot less windy to boot).  Not much danger of those temps in Wellington in early September.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                              Up next: TBC

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              Fredford66


                              Running Musician

                                 

                                Fred - Nice week.  It was NOT a PR.  Although it is my second best 10km, although I've only raced 5-6 in total.

                                Sorry for missing that it wasn't a PR. I haven't run a lot of 10k races either. They seem to be relatively rare where I live. There are more halves than 10k's.

                                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                                Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9