a brutal 14-16 miles @ goal pace right before my taper...

IMHO, you may want to reconsider this.

First, other than the obvious confidence booster, I would ask what your goal is for this workout.  One could argue there are other less brutal workouts you could do and get a similar benefit.

Second, and maybe I am being picky, but you said goal PACE not EFFORT.  If you are training hard and this is right before your taper, you are saying that you are going to run goal PACE at a time when you are not rested for that pace to be at the same effort it will be on race day.  Therefore, this "workout" will be more race-like than you want it to be.

We all have our opinions....just voicing mine....having been there and done this exact misstep.  A week after my 10K PR I decided I needed one more brutal workout to convince myself I could run sub-2:22.  So I went out and did about 14 miles right at 5:25 pace.  I was never the same after that workout.  Now, granted, I had a latent hammy injury going on that aggravated the situation, but as it turned out I was balancing on over-training as well and this workout threw me solidly over the line.  In retrospect I probably could have done a 10-mile tempo or some long fartlek instead (say 5milesON/.5-1mileOFF X3), gotten a good workout in, and entered my marathon refreshed rather than broken.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.  It's been a pleasure following your improvement over time.

spaniel-

 

What you say makes sense.  I worry about going over the line and "frying" my body, but I also worry about not putting in the necessary work to run a decent time.  Like 99.99% of runners, I am self-coached and I get into the habit of picking workouts that elites do (the long tempo is one that Ryan Hall does right before his taper).  I would still like to get those miles in - maybe just at a slower pace?  Or do you think 10-11 at goal pace (yes, pace) would be more beneficial - like I could work my way faster for 10 miles or so then do the rest at pace.  Also, I am not racing in September; I want to make sure that I am able to complete all my marathon specific workouts.  I don't like to talk about my pace goal, but I will just to give you some perspective -  It's 2:35 (5:54).  I race a Half Marathon on 8/28 and I will post my experience in this thread.  Based off of that, maybe you could give me some insight on whether or not I am shooting for a reasonable goal...

I think either of the options you give -- 10-11 at goal pace or 14-16 at a bit slower -- are fine.  I can't say one is definitively better than the other at that point in your training.

Elites have superhuman recovery ability.  The ability to recover quickly from hard work is probably the least recognized difference between those of such high performance and the rest of us.  "Dumbing down" their workouts to our paces is dangerous because it doesn't take into account the need for recovery and how that differs.

When I had conditioned myself to run about the volume of the elites, I could absorb a hard workout every 48-72 hours.  No way in heck I could approach that now or even on 70-80 mpw.

This week has been ok

Mon - I did 15 hills repeats (3000+ feet)

Wed - I did 20 Hill repeats (4000+feet)

But my ass is fat

Like always I am up and down a lot in a year

With the exception of weight - Which was always up (Damn Beer)

I was training well until I switched for 4 weeks from Leadville to Marathon training - Then it felt like a start over to the hill work.  I probably should not have done Grandmas marathon - tape and recovery stole 3 weeks of good training time.

I was back on track until the 1-2 punch of head and arm - But I was training desperatley - As I just had enough time to get into some resemblance of shape.

I believe that I will be fine at Leadville.  I have been sleeping @ 8-11,000 feet for a few months.  I also seem to have a good internal system that allows me to pick a pace that I can maintain for a given race distance.  Then there is that fact that I am one of the more stubborn pigheaded people around.  Finally, I really love pain.

I am actaully enjoying training right now.  I would love to bang out a 40+ mile run, but it would be a detriment.  Do I am just trying to get a steady diet of vertical - Mainly focussing on downhill running.  I may get 110+ this week.  I am thinking of doing 4-4.5 hour trail run (24-26 miles) Sat or Sunday.  Kids want to go to county fair Sat, so probably Sunday.  The bad thing about trail running is I can not afford to fall on my arm again.  I will get cleared to run or not cleared to run Leadville 8-11 after x-ray.  I am not sure why I am having the x-ray, because I am running Leadville.

I am less worked up about a less than ideal Leadville, because I am enjoying running.   Now that I am running Monkey again - I have something to work toward ... It will be the 1st Monkey out of 3 that I will try and be in hill shape for.

So you have an altitude tent as well??

It was my Birthday present to myself this year (2/27)

 

We are gone so many weekends thay I am unsure if it has helped at all

 

I know most the rest of the American people stopped their foolish spending habbits - So I had to pick mine up to help cover.

 

Originally, I had this delusion of trying to do well at Leadville.

 

Wife allowed it, but not the easiest thing for her.

I think once they agree to things like Leadville, accepting the tent becomes easier.