Ostrich runner
It's strange, but fairly normal I think. I have had friends pace on 100s who were worse off than the racer--even where the pacer was the stronger runner.
http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum
I'm a little floored by the whole recovery angle on this thing. Granted I did not run myself into the ground like I would in a hard-run marathon....was not on pavement....and was in trainers and not flats....but still, I ran 11 miles further than I ever have before and had significant muscle lock-up issues when I stopped (leading directly to the knee issues). I was SLIGHTLY sore the day after...two days after I felt like I wanted to go for 10 miles or so. Three days out (last night) I easily covered 10 miles at a decent easy pace with no ill effects. I think doing a workout would have been over-doing it....I could feel a little lingering fatigue in the background...but my legs feel like I did nothing more than a moderate workout last weekend. Weird. If this is normal no wonder some of these guys can race such races so often, especially since they actually prepare for them.
I'm a little floored by the whole recovery angle on this thing. Granted I did not run myself into the ground like I would in a hard-run marathon....was not on pavement....and was in trainers and not flats....but still, I ran 11 miles further than I ever have before and had significant muscle lock-up issues when I stopped (leading directly to the knee issues).
I was SLIGHTLY sore the day after...two days after I felt like I wanted to go for 10 miles or so. Three days out (last night) I easily covered 10 miles at a decent easy pace with no ill effects. I think doing a workout would have been over-doing it....I could feel a little lingering fatigue in the background...but my legs feel like I did nothing more than a moderate workout last weekend.
Weird. If this is normal no wonder some of these guys can race such races so often, especially since they actually prepare for them.
Looks like we have a new Ultra running convert.
Heard similar thing from another friend, that a trail 50 K is easier on the body than a marathon. I wouldn't know personally, but he runs a 50K almost every month without significant drop off from his Marathon pace (not quite Spaniel pace though).
Damn it you found out the secret - Now you have to come 100% to the dark side or we will have to slience you.
1) I find any race that I am limited by something other than my ability - Dehydration, injury, bonking - I have not been able to adequately destroy my muscles and I can recover quickly.
2) Pavement = Evil
3) You pulled up lame @ mile 14 - 15 of marathon (by percentages) and shuffled best you could to mile 19 ... This all by % of race distance, but you meter the effort you put forth by the distance -
4) I think races not based on LAT, but on pure strength, aerobic fitness and hydration / calorie intake - Will cause less soreness.
Don't be totally convinced yet - If you go out for a 20 miler with 10 @ MP you may fall right on your face. I find I feel pretty good, but it has torn down my total strength some.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
Damnit man. I thought HM's was the way to race and recover and now you're telling me it's 50s. This whole running this confuses me to no end.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
I don't know about 50s, but m 16 mile half marathon last weekend tore me up worse than the 8hr run last summer when I was in much worse shape. Granted, both were on trails.
Hah. Kind of like that 33 mile 50k we ran last winter.
I see a trend on these trail races.
Feeling the growl again
I don't know if I'm total dark side yet, but I damn well intend to start training for next year's revenge on this course right now.
Racing in trainers makes a big difference. Being at my "shuffle" 6:40-7min pace made a big difference too, I am sure. Less impact.
Next year I need a crew, I realize. While I came into transition averaging 6:53, if I had had crew handing me stuff it would have been 6:48-6:50...I had to pour my own water at some of the stops. I exited the turnaround averaging 6:57...so lost almost 2 minutes rifling through my drop bag etc...next time I will not have a drop bag and bank that time too.
This race is not a mountain trail race, it is a true speed course where that kind of time counts.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Next year I need a crew.
Raises hand.
I agree if you are serious about a race - A crew helps. I load up like a frick'n pack mule for a 50M and so all I need is water refills - I still lose 2-3 minutes in the race ... But I have not ran a 50M as a goal race - So that is fine. I probably lose another 2-3 minutes carrying so much shit.
I will carry 12-15 gels, 6 baggies of endurox, usually a camel back + handheld ... oh and a baggy or 2 of s-caps. I have a hard time keeping my shorts up.
I agree if you are serious about a race - A crew helps. I load up like a frick'n pack mule for a 50M and so all I need is water refills - I still lose 2-3 minutes in the race ... But I have not ran a 50M as a goal race - So that is fine. I probably lose another 2-3 minutes carrying so much shit. I will carry 12-15 gels, 6 baggies of endurox, usually a camel back + handheld ... oh and a baggy or 2 of s-caps. I have a hard time keeping my shorts up.
I bought RaceRead shorts into which I could cram 8 gels (half what I needed for the race, one every 20min). I had to untuck my slippery jersey so my shorts would stay up, it was better an hour later with a lighter load.
I used some little screw-cap tubes I have a lot of because I use them to hold pre-measured powder for my muzzleloader for my s-caps. Mistake. The jostling of running got them stuck in there, I only got to take half what I planned on and lost some time screwing with them trying to tap them out.
I talked to the guy who got 2nd (5:51), he really trained for it (back-to-back long runs etc). All he ate the whole race was two nutrition bars, which he had down in the first hour. Perhaps he has trained better to run off fat....I am sure my metabolism is trained to run on carbs but I am fine with that, as long as I got my gels I was feeling GREAT...mixed in a couple small cups Mtn Dew as well to get my 300-400cal/hr.
I tried TonyP's idea and had a couple oatmeal cream pies at the turnaround. Usually I love those things. The first bite didn't even get to my stomach and I about threw it up....those were a no-go and I pitched them. But gels, no issues at all.
In a longer or less supported race I could see wearing a camelback...I have one and have run 20 miles in it on trails before. Slosh was annoying but runnable. I would tolerate handhelds if needed...have new, real ones I got to try in this race but have not used. Any sort of waist pack is right out, I have decided I really hate anything strapped around my waist.
Cool. Beer and celebration meal on me.
We do expect 6:30 pace with that training focus and excellent crew.
I know its hard to transition out of Run fast race mode - But I think you owe yourself a 50M run on technical trails through the woods experience.
http://www.dwdgnawbone.com/
It will feel more survivalist like when you go hunting in the mountains
or
http://www.badgerlandstriders.org/home/Races/IceAgeTrail50M50K.htm (Same weekend - But is mothers day weekend)
A true trail 50M not a flat race course or a 10 mile loop repeat.
It is just a different experience and I think you will find it fits you well.
We do expect 6:30 pace with that training focus and excellent crew. I know its hard to transition out of Run fast race mode - But I think you owe yourself a 50M run on technical trails through the woods experience. http://www.dwdgnawbone.com/ It will feel more survivalist like when you go hunting in the mountains
My sister lives in Gnawbone....or closer to that than anything else. Easy post-race party.
Only issue would be if I run a hard April marathon....both I am looking at are April 2X. We shall see how it plays out. If I am not in shape for a fast marathon I'd rather opt out and do the 50.
MTA: 6:30 pace...is 5:25...holy hell...
Next year I need a crew, I realize.
Count me in as well. Wanted to come up to watch last weekend but had some other stuff going on.
You are still thinking like a fast racing rockstar
Think of Gnaw Bone as a fun run through the woods - Part of your training for the fast 50M. Time to enjoy some trail running - Time to work on nutrition - Not time to run as fast as you can. Time to cruise easy the 1st 30-35 miles and then run harder the last 15 or so. Think of it more in terms of your hunting trips - A good hard day in the woods and hills - A good tired, not all out exhausted.
Then come to WI July 14th for the 50k or 50M - You can camp at the start finish line - Hell we could get a big group and go nuts post race wiht party
http://www.dwddevilslake.com/
I was planning on 50k - Mainly because its hot and 50k gets done faster.
That should give you the experience to kill the goal race.
My sister lives in Gnawbone....or closer to that than anything else. Easy post-race party. Only issue would be if I run a hard April marathon....both I am looking at are April 2X. We shall see how it plays out. If I am not in shape for a fast marathon I'd rather opt out and do the 50. MTA: 6:30 pace...is 5:25...holy hell...