AZ~14 miles in under 3 hours - fantastic! Sound like it was a beautiful day to be out there.
Deb and Rich: it was 18 miles just under 3 hrs. 14 miles? "piece of cake," LOL!! Those 'tough runs' are what I'm anticipating as the days get more yucky with winter temps and wind. I don't like the wind. It can make or break a LONG run. It always euphoric when I overcome those weather challenges but they aren't pretty or fast. Hope you get a good run today!!
A thought and a question- I think one of my problems is a weak, stiff, inflexible butt! I've never done much core work. Right butt/piriformis especially tight. What have you all found most helpful for both improving strength and flexibility in the core? Suggestions? Yoga? Pilates? PX90? I'd rather not take time to get trainer at a health club to work on it. Appreciate your thoughts.
A thought and a question-
I think one of my problems is a weak, stiff, inflexible butt! I've never done much core work. Right butt/piriformis especially tight. What have you all found most helpful for both improving strength and flexibility in the core? Suggestions? Yoga? Pilates? PX90? I'd rather not take time to get trainer at a health club to work on it. Appreciate your thoughts.
Dan: I have had problems with my left side especially the piriformis since Feb. of this year ......and now I'm feeling some IT problems but not bad. I always hear of these issues with runners but, luckily, they have been at bay till this year!! Haven't mentioned it much on this forum. Funny that they started when I pretty much stopped running hills, technical trails, etc. after moving to MN!! I'm just wired wierd!! Anyway, I have always incorporated core work but have added a few others that specifically focuses on strengthening the quads/hamstrings/groin to help minimize the muscle fatigue and joint stress. Walk breaks (before you get tired) really helps as well. You can find some great core strengthening exercises online, like Running Times. I don't know about you but I like short, simple exercises that you can get maximum benefits when doing them post-run or on recovery days. I get bored easily so my personality is such that I need variety but intense core exercises. I get Outside magazine and in the March 2014 issue it had an article: "13 reasons why now is the time to slap down an entry fee, pin on a race bib, and head to the start line." There are four exercises that I like from that issue, and do: External Hip Rotation with Side Plank, The Windmill, Reverse Lunge to Cross over Kick, and Side Plank with Hip Flexion and Adduction. There is one stretching exercise that is excellent for the piriformis (IMO that works for me) I found online. I will try to find it and post it asap.
GOOD JOB on the finish time, Dan!! So close but you gotta feel good about getting a PR!! CONGRATS!! I hate seeing 11's (pace) too. You're right that you would lose signal when in the tunnel, will keep that in mind IF I run a race where I have to run through a DARK, DAMP tunnel. Saw the event photos and it looked pretty chilly and breezy! Pretty lively event too!! What shoes did you wear? Do you take gel and/or any energy drink along the way? I remember you had a tough time with fueling back in April when we ran the relay. How is your pre-race diet (like 2-3 days prior)? You don't have much extra weight. I know you mentioned trying to figure out your fueling strategy for this race. You made it to the finish upright though!! Way to hang in there!!
Dan - Great RR! Even tho the GPS won't work in the tunnel the watch still works (honest). It is kind of fun and keeps the mind on other things to calculate your pace by doing the math (at least approximately) - ok, I've got a different idea of "fun". Or, you can calculate it ahead of time and record what times you want to be at each mile marker (even adjusting for elevation changes). Then you can know how close to your paces you really are. I'm thinking of doing this for marathon in December. Piriformis?! Googled it and damn if that doesn't describe my problem! Crap, hamstring is probably good just need to stretch things out and start specific exercises, sigh...Oh, thankyou and Az!
WDRich - you weather sounds very familiar - not that I'm up that early. Sounds like you're ready for your 10K.
Az - 18 miles! I'm not sure why I find going over 15 such a mind bender. Great job! You're going to kick butt on your marathon!
NHRich - When I saw you sitting on your trike, my first thought was "that seat is too high" and then "needs a more chair-like seat with a back", you might want to add in a seat belt to anchor you too... Push and pull, sounds like a very good workout!
Debra - I'm SOOO sore today! That core workout kicked my butt, shoulders, abdomen. Sometimes it takes the bad days to make us appreciate the good days more, or not... Kudos for getting the run in when things aren't perfect!
Yeah, I'm still sore. Stretched the piriformis in my office and things already feel better (placebo affect?). Gives me hope for getting the miles in I need to before December. No run yet today, but feeling optimistic - Thanks everyone for keeping me positive and motivated!
Ray
Dan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgu6poYC-lk
About 5 mins 55 secs into this video where she lifts her leg, make sure you move your chest in towards the center. It feels awesome!! The one that I feel in the piriformis is the stretch she does after this .....at about 7 mins 15 secs. I do this throughout the day.
http://www.spine-health.com/video/sciatica-exercises-piriformis-syndrome-video
This guy is in Appleton, WI!! The last exercise he does is the one I LOVE; you can feel the butt area stretching more if you slowly (the more you do this) move down towards the floor. It's actually a similar stretch from the other video (at 7mins). Make sure you feel it in the muscles and not the knee.
http://www.trailrunningclub.com/blog/2012/07/30/5-muscle-groups-runners-should-target/
I think you would appreciate this discussion (about 2 mins) and then the demonstration.
I do most of these on recovery days and certain ones post-run. I mix them up and add others that have worked for me when I did more dirt trail running in the AZ mountains.
Hope these help!!
Piriformis?! Googled it and damn if that doesn't describe my problem! Crap, hamstring is probably good just need to stretch things out and start specific exercises, sigh...Oh, thankyou and Az! Az - 18 miles! I'm not sure why I find going over 15 such a mind bender. Great job! You're going to kick butt on your marathon! Yeah, I'm still sore. Stretched the piriformis in my office and things already feel better (placebo affect?). Gives me hope for getting the miles in I need to before December. No run yet today, but feeling optimistic - Thanks everyone for keeping me positive and motivated!
Piriformis?! Googled it and damn if that doesn't describe my problem! Crap, hamstring is probably good just need to stretch things out and start specific exercises, sigh...Oh, thankyou and Az!
Ray: "Crap" is right!! I said the same thing about a year ago!! Sometimes it's confused with hamstrings issues but they all work together. The piriformis 'syndrome' gets confused as well with the sciatic problem. Piriformis problem actually comes from the muscle compressing the sciatic nerve. I put my foam roller to good use in exercising those sore spots.
I just need to get over the 16 miler (similar to your 15 mile "mind bender") and any miles more than that is a mental challenge .......when training for a FM. I am not as fit/conditioned as I was when running dirt trails in AZ but I'm gonna stand at the starting line knowing I am as ready as I can be in that moment in time. It's only "one mile at a time" .......that keeps me going. You're probably the best fit runner in the group so I know you will rock the CIM marathon !!! The course has magnificent views!! DW and/or DS gonna take photos along the route?!?
Happy Thursday!!
I started this page and maybe I can end it!! LOL!! Talk about 'competitiveness' .....
Another "nice" day, about 37 degrees, feels like 31, about 8mph breeze, cloudy. REST DAY: stretching, weights, Health Rider, and core exercises.
Az - Yes! Just got back from run and stretching it out feels soo much better. Guess I need to not sit for so long.
NHRich - On form, I don't know that they go up so much as the leg stays up. It takes strength to keep the knee high and tuck the leg as you pull through. Which, I think as we age we become more striders then gazelles. Not to mention we lose some of that flexibility which allows you to extend the trailing leg at extreme angles. The key is to keep the leg in the air longer, lengthening the stride - which is more horizontal then up and down.
Oddly enough, I think I can tie all this together as to why lifting my knee more hurt less for my last race. The piriformis muscle is used when pulling the leg through (if I read things correctly), by raising my knee I forced myself to pull my foot closer to my thigh/butt. This reduces the moment arm on the thigh and specifically the piriformis muscle, reducing the stress on it. I think the additional hiking and walking has been adding stress to the muscle and I will need to do some additional stretching to stay on top of this.
Weather here is still nice, only 70F today (yeah, only...) and was taking things easy even though everything was feeling pretty good when a guy blows by me. This guy's only about a foot taller, but his stride length and steps seem pretty synch'ed to mine. He wasn't going all that fast, so I stayed judiciously behind him and kept pace. As we hit the dam, he went up the steep side and I continued on the path, but picked up my pace just a bit. There were a bunch of people at the top of the dam and I correctly surmised that we would hit this point at about the same time. He was just a step behind, but I just stepped it up a little more. He fell back a little more and I think he might have eased his pace a bit. As the path hit the next 'Y", I went up the hill and he went around it. Taking the hill adds 1/10th of a mile so he passed me at this point and I could track him for awhile. I add in more and I could see him heading back the way we came when I turned off to add more miles (this was about 2 miles into the run). I kept my pace up and finished 8.2 miles in around an 8:03 mpm pace.
Ray, I Googled "Ryan Hall running" and found this short video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwxMT2Jivu8
Watch the amount of up and down motion there is when he runs. Obviously, I can't run like he does, but I can copy the action. I'm keeping it simple, running with slightly bent knees and driving with my hips. To me, the action is up and forward...
WDWRich... I knew you were kidding about the windshield.
John
Happy Thu AZ and all. Core training is a good thing and I need to do it - but - swimming lessons come first.
As expected, it was dark and raining when I got home from work. To save "face" I went out anyway --- and ---- it was not so bad. Thanks for the help.
Tomorrow I will see if my knee is happy.
John www.wickedrunningclub.com
In the beginning, the universe was created.This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--- Douglas Adams, in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe"
Ray, I Googled "Ryan Hall running" and found this short video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwxMT2Jivu8 Watch the amount of up and down motion there is when he runs. Obviously, I can't run like he does, but I can copy the action. I'm keeping it simple, running with slightly bent knees and driving with my hips. To me, the action is up and forward...
NH: I get homesick watching Ryan Hall's workout session .......... he lived in the same town I live in in northern AZ so the backdrop of the mountain and the dirt roads he runs on leaves me wishing I was still there <<<sign, sniffle>>> I recognize the area he is running at; I've run those as well. Hall tends to run on dirt roads, not much on technical trails. The McMillan running club has their runners there so I would come across them out on a mtn trail now and then. I MISS THOSE. You say "a trail run/race" there and they swoop in, men and women!! Not so around here. Everything is paved around here. Anyway, homesick or not, I get my northern AZ 'FIX' by watching a Ryan Hall or McMillan video. Just sayin'
Az - Yes! Just got back from run and stretching it out feels soo much better. Guess I need to not sit for so long. NHRich - On form, I don't know that they go up so much as the leg stays up. It takes strength to keep the knee high and tuck the leg as you pull through. Which, I think as we age we become more striders then gazelles. Not to mention we lose some of that flexibility which allows you to extend the trailing leg at extreme angles. The key is to keep the leg in the air longer, lengthening the stride - which is more horizontal then up and down. Oddly enough, I think I can tie all this together as to why lifting my knee more hurt less for my last race. The piriformis muscle is used when pulling the leg through (if I read things correctly), by raising my knee I forced myself to pull my foot closer to my thigh/butt. This reduces the moment arm on the thigh and specifically the piriformis muscle, reducing the stress on it. I think the additional hiking and walking has been adding stress to the muscle and I will need to do some additional stretching to stay on top of this.
Ray: Sitting too long is the worse when you have piriformis issues!! Wonder if sitting on a exercise ball is better, maybe the person who came up with that had piriformis 'syndrome??' Anyway, you have to lift your knee up more when you run dirt trails especially technical ones to keep from falling/tripping on roots, rocks, etc. It becomes pretty 'natural' and a habit the more you run on dirt trails, mountain hills, etc. Since moving to MN, I've noticed that I'm not 'lifting' my knee as much running on flat paved road/trail around here, and have experienced some knee fatigue/stress. Thus, the piriformis muscle problems since early this year!! I'm trying to be diligent on my form now especially lifting the knee (without 'bouncing') when I run. I think riding a bike helps as well .....within reasonable miles (RE: not like my epic bike ride), LOL!!
Sluggo: swimming is an excellent way to get some cross-training in!!
justrundan Enjoyed your race report! I found that Pilates were good for the core, but I needed some private lessons in order to learn to do them properly, because I'm not very co-ordinated. Some of my friends like yoga instead.
az2mntrail You're in shape if you're doing 18 under 3 hours. Maybe not "trail" shape, but still, very good!
rmcj001 That guy who passed you didn't know who he was dealing with. Nice pace.
Piriformis issues are tough. Sitting at work or in a car is the worst.
Pilates helped me, plus not sitting down if there is room to stand.
NH Runner A rowing action on the trike would be a good workout.
I've watched videos of Ryan Hall, his stride length is so long and knees lifted up so much higher than most people I know.
I thought Desi did well at NYC in the wind. I didn't get to see the marathon.
sluggo Good job getting yourself out in the rain.
8 miles. A marathon training group was there doing repeats. All were 30-40 yrs. old, and they were passing me like I was standing still. Quite motivating seeing them train.
"dancing on the path and singing, now you got away,
you can reach the goals you set from now on, every day"
Sonata Arctica
Crazy Diamond
Dan~Nicely done! Enjoyed your RR, that 300 ft. gain after the turn around is a PR killer! Sounds like a great race that the town gets behind. I'd love to run it. Piriformis - argh! I do "pigeon" yoga pose for it. Roll on a 6" section of PFC pipe, the foam roller doesn't do it. Some folks use a lacrosse ball, I like the PFC pipe better.
AZ~ I read 18, not sure how 14 came up on the screen! You're so speedy and strong, if you took 3 hours to run 14 miles I'd know something was wrong! My apologies, that was an awesome run for you!
NH Runner~Agree that form changes don't come easy. I've been trying to adjust my right foot strike to more of a mid foot. Began concentrating on it after my January marathon relay. Improving, but not there yet. Are you running the 5k this weekend?
WDWRich~Great job on your 3 miles at 10k pace. You're gonna rock your Thanksgiving race!
Ray~Enjoyed reading about the exploits with the other runner on the trail. Wish I could run your pace!
Sluggo~Hope you're having a happy knee day today!
Chantilly~ Nice 8 miles run at your track. It's always inspiring to see some great running by the young ones!
Yesterday - Ran 7 miles at the track. A bit better than the day before. It could be the increase to running 6 days a week.
Today - Chilly 43F, but it got better. 8 miles easy with the last 15 minutes moderate pace. Ran a double loop on the river bike path because the outdoor track was being serviced before one of the big HS football final math-ups this evening.
Run strong friends!
Quo Vadis?
Friday, 11/7... round 2 on the Irish Mail was a 4 mile ride on the railtrail today. It surprised me how much easier today's ride was compared to the 3 miler I did the other day. I still got tired, but not uncomfortable at all. Later in the day I grabbed Sim and the 2 of us jogged 2 miles on the railtrail.
Dan... I enjoyed your race report. You ran a solid race, congrats again...
Sluggo... good luck with your knee!
az... I've always associated Arizona with hot, dry air, but the country Ryan was running in was beautiful and I can see why you'd miss it. You had some serious company running the trails out there, McMillan and Ryan Hall. Wow!
Chantilly...the form changes I'm working on are meant to keep me from getting hurt so often. I brought up the form of a guy like Ryan Hall because it's such a contradiction from what most running "experts" tell us to do. In the Tuesday running group, 2 of the guys run in such a way that their heads constantly stay level. Their hips and shoulders rotate around their spines and I swear if you could balance a glass of water on their heads while they run, they'd never spill a drop! All that twisting and turning is very inefficient, but they run the way they do because some expert told them not to bounce when you run and they've taken it to the extreme. And yeah, Desi ran a good race. I can't imagine running 26.2 in 25 mph winds with gusts to 40 and a 40 degree temp.
gito... here's a thought. Check to make sure your arm swing is the same for both arms. It's easy to get out of kilter and if one's shorter than the other, your hips wouldn't rotate the same and that would effect foot strike. Not sure about tomorrow's 5K, but am leaning towards going...