Beginners and Beyond

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Edited: Ran a 10k Tempo tonight (Good news on page 2) (Read 147 times)

kristin10185


Skirt Runner

    An all-out 5K will definitely give you answers. When I had this concern a few weeks ago, I was concerned that I was running easy/long runs quite a bit faster than McMillan said I should even though they felt easy. I was using my 5K PR from 3/3. But that was my first race effort since injury so I probably left a little time on the course because I was worried about reinjury, and it was a hilly course. Ran all out on a flat 5K on 4/6 and set a huge new PR. Plugged those paces into McMillan and the numbers it spit out for my easy runs are more consistient with what I've been hitting. So May 11 should be a great indicator.

     

     

    Good.  McMillan isn't the end all and be all but it is a pretty good guide.  If you're running a good bit faster than McMillan suggests, then you either didn't race all out or you really are running your easy runs too fast.  Another good guide is found here.  It's based off Daniels and it doesn't give a range of paces; it gives one pace.  It tends to have faster paces for faster work but a slower easy pace.

    PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

     

    I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

    FreeSoul87


    Runs4Sanity

      I guess I'll just have to wait and see, I've got.......... just a little over 2 weeks until that next 5k and I plan on giving it my all.

      *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

      PRs

      5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

      10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

      15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

      13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

       26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

      FreeSoul87


      Runs4Sanity

        Tonight I finally ran a sub 9 min/mile 10k tempo, it wasn't easy I will be honest. While my stupid Garmin Communicator Plug in is still trying to install, I will just state a few things.

          I started  out just above 10 min/mile pace, I hit 3.1 miles in 28:08 minutes and took a breather. I then hit 5 miles in 45:16 minutes, took a moment to breath as a side stitch was trying to attack me. 

          My plan was to run a 7 mile tempo, but I decided near the end to run a 10k tempo and then a 1 mile cool down jog then a .3 mile walk.

          Overall I ran 6.2 miles in 55:14 with an average pace of 8:55 min/mile, my fastest PR before this was 58:55 with an average pace of 9:29 min/mile so I kicked 3 minutes off. Honestly I probably wouldn't have if I hadn't stopped twice for a minute break to breath and get over a side stitch. Anyways, my splits were:

        Mile 1 - 10:08

        Mile 2 - 9:00

        Mile 3 - 8:20

        Mile 4 - 8:49

        Mile 5 - 8:58

        Mile 6 - 8:26

        .2      - 7:51

         

           Then I tried to jog an easy 1 miler afterwards to cool down, I ran that in 9:30 so it was relatively slower and felt easier than the tempo run (go figure). Then I walked the remaining .3 miles back to my Tahoe and now I am dealing with trying to get my stupid Garmin to pair and connect and transfer to the computer so this is very irritating!

            I wasn't going to do a tempo this week, I wanted to focus on what seems like a new found pace and speed, but I decided after mile 1 to just go for it and experiment and boy am I glad I did. Not only is this my fastest 10k yet, my goal this year was to break under the 9 min/mile barrier for a 10k and I did that tonight. Now that I have checked off......... I wonder when I'll be able to break the 8 min/mile barrier for a 5k (hmm....).

         

          Can somebody please help me with this damn Garmin before I throw it across the room Angry

        *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

        PRs

        5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

        10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

        15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

        13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

         26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

        MJ5


        Chief Unicorn Officer

          My question is, why are you running 7 mile tempos? If tempo pace is a pace you can hold for approximately an hour, then I don't think your tempo pace is fast enough if you are able to do 7 miles' worth. Aside from that, I (and the guys I run with too) don't know why anyone needs to do a 7 mile tempo run. Generally I believe you should keep your tempo running under about a half hour or around 4 miles, especially if your weekly mileage is not very high (I would say under 40). Just my two cents.

           

          looking at your race results (which I didn't do in my original post) it's also possible that if you're real 5k race pace is 9:10/mile or 8Tight lippedx/mile, then you're racing your "tempo" runs and that is not good either. That is not a tempo. Something is not right.

          Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54

          FreeSoul87


          Runs4Sanity

            I like my tempo run to be just 2-3 miles shorter than my long runs, maybe it's not a tempo run but I call it that. My easy runs are 5 miles (sometimes 6) and my long runs are returning back to between 9-11 miles (still recovering somewhat from my HM almost 3 weeks ago). Technically I'm probably only doing a tempo 3-4 miles out of that 6-7 mile run. I try to use the first 2 miles to warm up, then either the last mile to slow back down. And I took advice from someone on here who said that a tempo should be about 70% of the long run (I think that is what they said)... other than that I can happily say that doing my tempo this way for the past 5-6 months has helped me, my HM almost 3 weeks ago is proof of that, so I am going to keep my tempo runs 6-7 miles, my easy runs 4-6 miles and my longs run no shorter than 9 miles with the hopes of hitting 12 mile long runs this Fall. I like my training, it has shown great improvement, and I will keep it. Cool

            *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

            PRs

            5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

            10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

            15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

            13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

             26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

            MJ5


            Chief Unicorn Officer

              That is a lot more reasonable, doing 3-4 of the total miles at tempo pace.

              Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54

              FreeSoul87


              Runs4Sanity

                Eh, I don't explain things very well, it makes a lot more sense in my head......... but I don't know if any sane person would want to go there Big grin

                *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                PRs

                5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                 26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

                MrNamtor


                  That is a lot more reasonable, doing 3-4 of the total miles at tempo pace.

                   

                  Not that I know what I am talking about (and I'm being honest here, not humble) but I don't think that what you are saying here is some universally agreed upon principle. I thought that some training plans call for 9 and 10 mile tempo runs for marathon training, and then there are "cruise intervals" which are, I think, runs broken up by rest intervals so that you can get higher volumes of what seem to be tempo runs. And I also think that the term "tempo run" does not have a universally agreed upon definition either.

                   

                  Correct me if I'm wrong.

                  FreeSoul87


                  Runs4Sanity

                    My "tempo" runs might be more like progression runs I think, but I'll call them tempos cause RA and RW don't have progression runs.... though I could create them. I use those runs to play with my speed, work on maintaining a hard effort, medium effort, and sometimes strenuous effort for 4-5 miles... for now. Sometimes if I am feeling real good, I'll try this on my long runs around 10-11 miles, just to gauge my fitness and condition.

                    Anyone can check out my training plan for this year, at the end of the year I am going to assess my body, and improvement and if all is good and great, I'll up my long runs between 12-14 miles for the first part of 2014, tempo/progression runs between 8-10 miles, easy/recovery runs between 5-6 miles and maybe add an extra day who knows. If this year goes without injury and comes with great success at my 3 Fall HMs, I hope to increase 2014 weekly mileage to between 30-35 miles.

                    I have become very flexible though, and willing to change anything if need be. Cool

                    *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                    PRs

                    5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                    10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                    15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                    13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                     26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

                    MJ5


                    Chief Unicorn Officer

                       

                      Not that I know what I am talking about (and I'm being honest here, not humble) but I don't think that what you are saying here is some universally agreed upon principle. I thought that some training plans call for 9 and 10 mile tempo runs for marathon training, and then there are "cruise intervals" which are, I think, runs broken up by rest intervals so that you can get higher volumes of what seem to be tempo runs. And I also think that the term "tempo run" does not have a universally agreed upon definition either.

                       

                      Correct me if I'm wrong.

                       

                      It doesn't have a universally agreed upon definition.  The general definition is comfortably hard, a hard pace you could hold for an hour, or close to 10K pace (mine personally is about 3 seconds slower than 10K pace) and the purpose is to elevate your lactate threshold.  If you are not properly pacing it, then it's not a tempo run.  I have never heard of something calling for 9-10 mile tempo runs in my 19 years of running, but I could have missed it somewhere.  Furthermore--I have had this discussion with the guy I coach with--if you are doing a tempo run as part of a marathon training program, your tempo pace should be slightly slower than it would for 5K or 10K training.  I don't think FreeSoul is training for a marathon therefore a "true tempo" (I put that in quotes since she clarified her training and this isn't really applicable directly to her anymore) should be the harder pace.  I have also done tempo runs interval-style and they still do not total over 4 miles.

                      Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54

                      MrNamtor


                        You've been running for 19 years? I didn't think you were that old Big grin

                        FreeSoul87


                        Runs4Sanity

                          She could have started running when she was 9.... she could be 28 Big grin

                          *Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*

                          PRs

                          5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace) 

                          10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)

                          15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)

                          13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)

                           26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)

                          MrNamtor


                            This is from a rw article from back awhile ago. I have no idea if the statement about Pfitzinger and 9 mile tempo runs is accurate as it is not a direct quote from Pfitzinger.

                             

                             

                            "Maintaining a specific and consistent pace is the most important aspect of a tempo run. However, this doesn’t exclude variety in other respects, depending on a runner’s individual goals. Says Pfitzinger, "The tempo runs I use for my athletes most frequently are four to six miles at 15K to half-marathon race pace." For marathoners, Pfitzinger prescribes up to nine miles at between half-marathon and marathon race pace, or a 13-mile run followed by five miles at between half-marathon and marathon pace."

                             

                             

                            http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/what-exactly-tempo-run?page=single

                            fourouta5


                            Healed Hammy

                              MJ5, let me add some additional thought to your response.  You are an experienced and very capable runner/racer.  You know your paces, what a "hard" effort is, what the impact of a hard run is on the rest of your weekly training.  To those of us (myself included) who have perhaps 3 years or less of training are still finding what true paces are.

                               

                              As we improve our paces change dramatically.  So Freesoul may be calling it a tempo run, when in fact her pacing may not be near or at her "true" race level.  Also as her fitness increases her pace will decrease.  (Of course you know all of this, I am repeating for those who may be newer).

                               

                              So lets not get hung up on the Tempo issue once more.  If Freesoul ran a hard 9 miles then good for her.  If she calls it a tempo run, then fine, hopefully she can do it again.  As for you, let us know when you are gonna hit the sub-20 5K.  You indeed are one speedy gal.

                              MJ5


                              Chief Unicorn Officer

                                I am 33, started running at age 14.

                                Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54

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