Getting everything aligned perfectly is definitely the hard part: course, weather, health and a good cycle. Hills are a killer. Each hill drains a little of your energy until you have nothing left. That is my opinion on the stupid things, anyways. I share your opinion on the Hansons strength runs. I was doing them at mp-15 to mp-20 this last cycle and still didn't know what I was trying to achieve with them. Pfitz looks very hard to me, but seems to work well. You made it through this cycle like a boss, and ran a huge PR. Congratulations, Dave.
Getting everything aligned perfectly is definitely the hard part: course, weather, health and a good cycle. Hills are a killer. Each hill drains a little of your energy until you have nothing left. That is my opinion on the stupid things, anyways.
I share your opinion on the Hansons strength runs. I was doing them at mp-15 to mp-20 this last cycle and still didn't know what I was trying to achieve with them. Pfitz looks very hard to me, but seems to work well.
You made it through this cycle like a boss, and ran a huge PR. Congratulations, Dave.
Thanks!
I wholeheartedly concur. I think I've gotten better at hills since moving out here, out of necessity. But especially in a long race they take a ton out of you, no matter what.
Dave
Congrats on the AG placing and PR. I think that course looks pretty brutal, to me hills and sun/heat are an awful combination. Putting that at the end of a marathon is just plain cruel. Yesterday you mentioned the positive split, my uneducated opinion is that a negative split on that course would potentially leave time on the first half. To knock several minutes off your PR says your fitness has improved.
Yeah that's what I figure. My first half pace was 7:50, my final overall pace was 8:10. If I ran the first half at 8:00, would I have run even splits? Doubtful. Beyond that, it's probably splitting hairs. No regrets about going out how I did.
I think if I had run a marathon it would be days(a week?) before I turned out a RR like that. Wonderful PR and AG award! You are so close to that BQ. I am conflicted about encouraging you to press on, or declare marathons are stoopid. Can you look for a race that is flatter?
I think if I had run a marathon it would be days(a week?) before I turned out a RR like that.
Wonderful PR and AG award! You are so close to that BQ. I am conflicted about encouraging you to press on, or declare marathons are stoopid. Can you look for a race that is flatter?
Thanks.
I like to try to get the RR out of the way while it's fresh in my mind. Although I usually have a crappy attitude at first, then feel better about it in the next few days. So maybe I should wait and the reports would be more cheerful.
If this had been a disaster, I was prepared to declare myself done with marathons permanently. They are stoopid regardless. The one I got sick before, last fall, was super flat. But also warmer. So you never know.
BQ your next marathon, then I'll be BQ mine, and the Boston 2018 FE will be the greatest ever.
Werd.
those late hills will give you a sense of what Boston is like once you do get your BQ.
A PR is a great thing.
Yes it is, although seems to go without saying. But it's amazing how demotivated I became in the later miles of my last one, once my PR started slipping out of reach. Compared to this one, when even after I gave up on my goal, I knew I still had the PR if I could hold it together, it was just a question of how big it would be. I guess this is why you have your A, B & C goals.
Well done, Dave. It sounds like you ran a good race, but that sun can be brutal even if it's not exactly "hot." A seven minute PR is awesome so screw the 8 minute positive split, that means nothing. How was the crowd support? Recover nicely and get some PRs at the other distances.
I think it was pretty decent, in spots at least. (I took a cup of water handed from a kid standing in front of his house with his dad, the kid must've been around 5. I didn't really slow down and sort of ripped it out of his hand. I might have scwred him a little.) But to be honest, despite thinking I like races with more crowd support, I don't seem to really notice a damn thing when in the zone.
Like I said on the team page, you did awesome Dave. You seriously crushed that PR and I'm sure you have the BQ in you. I bet if you rest up, enjoy the shorter distances for awhile, then get back to it in the fall or next spring you will get it. congrats again!
Thanks! I just hope you can heal up and join the fun.
You probably would have gotten your BQ on a flat course, cool day. And while you can't control 100% what race day gives, there are a lot of things you can do to increase your odds of having fast conditions. This is why I have run IMM so many times. November race has a better chance of being cold than Chicago or Milwaukee which are both closer. It's also pancake flat. Anyway, you had a big PR so congrats for that! And you will get the BQ soon. Are you planning to run a fall marathon?
You probably would have gotten your BQ on a flat course, cool day. And while you can't control 100% what race day gives, there are a lot of things you can do to increase your odds of having fast conditions. This is why I have run IMM so many times. November race has a better chance of being cold than Chicago or Milwaukee which are both closer. It's also pancake flat.
Anyway, you had a big PR so congrats for that! And you will get the BQ soon. Are you planning to run a fall marathon?
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. You can never know I guess. I took it for granted living in flatland, with April & October pretty reliably cool. Somewhat limited selection of flat courses around here, and I don't know why they don't run more races through the winter, since there is rarely snow or sub-freezing temps. Never really been into traveling for races, but maybe need to think more about it if I want to get serious. It's ironic - I signed up for this one knowing it was not the easiest, but after tanking my race last fall which I chose specifically for it's flatness, I said screw it. That one was a small race through isolated farmland, and I thought I'd really prefer something more urban.
Not sure about this fall, but I'm thinking probably.
Nice job, Dave! I think your time is very good considering that elevation. That looks almost as brutal as the Pig I ran yesterday (no BQ or PR attempt for me, thankfully). Chin up! Your current training shows improvement as compared to prior ones. You will get your BQ!
You should run this one - it is full of Marathon Maniacs! You may already know but Tacoma is where MM started, and is their HQ; this is I guess their home race. Before the race, a local Maniac I know from the forums pointed out a couple guys standing together who were MM #1 and #3.
I think it's normal to be disappointed in falling short of your goal, especially when you invest as much time and effort as we do with running. You are still improving though (your training paces and race times confirm this), so the final chapter in your book has yet to be written. Imagine then looking back someday and seeing an hour improvement between your first marathon and your last (hey, I said IMAGINE!). To use a baseball analogy; swing for the fences, then if you end up on third base instead, well dammit, that's all right too.
This is how I feel, you will be glad to know, since you are always the first to try to talk me out of my disappointment. As many of you know it is just particulary tough for marathons, since (for non-Maniacs) you pretty much need to wait another 6 months to try again.
Looking back, I have improved by 43 minutes so far. It took me 3 marathons to break 4:00, and that happened only 2 years ago now that I think of it.
You put a lot of time and effort into this cycle as noted from the dailies. Do not be discouraged. I wanted to offer one thought although keep in mind you have more marathon experience than I. When running up a hill we tend to try an keep even effort. I get that and it is not that hard. Shorter strides, controlled breathing, not pushing off the back foot as much, etc. Our paces decrease accordingly. Where I differ with many is on the downhills. I was a pretty good HS runner and would make up huge times on the downhills. In my last marathon this worked perfectly for me (see I am laying down my few credentials, lol). At the crest of the hill we slow down, catch our breath and try to get back to normal rhythm. To the opposite I open my stride up, thus covering more ground with the same cadence. I try to bounce a little to let gravity pull me. Thus I end up covering the downside faster, with fewer steps eventually my breathing slows down. Common technique is to try and bring your breathing down immediately at the crest. Would that have helped you? Dunno. I suggest that you might have picked up 1min or so by pushing it a bit harder on the downhills. Its mental but I think it might help. Gratz again, perhaps concentrate on some 5 & 10ks over the summer to help speed, and ramp up for a fall BQ. Its in you.
You put a lot of time and effort into this cycle as noted from the dailies. Do not be discouraged. I wanted to offer one thought although keep in mind you have more marathon experience than I.
When running up a hill we tend to try an keep even effort. I get that and it is not that hard. Shorter strides, controlled breathing, not pushing off the back foot as much, etc. Our paces decrease accordingly. Where I differ with many is on the downhills. I was a pretty good HS runner and would make up huge times on the downhills. In my last marathon this worked perfectly for me (see I am laying down my few credentials, lol). At the crest of the hill we slow down, catch our breath and try to get back to normal rhythm. To the opposite I open my stride up, thus covering more ground with the same cadence. I try to bounce a little to let gravity pull me. Thus I end up covering the downside faster, with fewer steps eventually my breathing slows down. Common technique is to try and bring your breathing down immediately at the crest.
Would that have helped you? Dunno. I suggest that you might have picked up 1min or so by pushing it a bit harder on the downhills. Its mental but I think it might help.
Gratz again, perhaps concentrate on some 5 & 10ks over the summer to help speed, and ramp up for a fall BQ. Its in you.
Running downhills is actually something I've been working on just in the last month and a half, since I got killed in a very hilly half. And there was a guy who I kept trading places with - I would power past him on the uphills, but then he would just fly past me on the downhills. I ended up beating him - race finished with an uphill. Chatted with him about it after the race, and read up a bit. So I have gotten better, but still have a lot of room to improve.
I think I've gotten better at hills since moving out here, out of necessity. But especially in a long race they take a ton out of you, no matter what.
I will add that hills much later in a race are way friggin worse than in the beginning when you are generally not so beat up. St. George marathon has a good sized hill (in the 8th mile or so) and it's not fun. But it would totally completely suck if it was in the 23rd mile.
Congrats on the pr and great training cycle dave. You did yourself proud. And I agree with the others that a bq is out there for you if you want to go for it. Enjoy the recovery!
marathon pr - 3:16
Not a BQ, but a fantastic job nonetheless. A 7 min PR is awesome, especially with a hilly course and sub-optimal weather. And, very, very nice to finish in the awards as well! It looks like you trained as hard as you could and raced as hard as you could. Well done!
Not a BQ, but a fantastic job nonetheless. A 7 min PR is awesome, especially with a hilly course and sub-optimal weather. And, very, very nice to finish in the awards as well!
It looks like you trained as hard as you could and raced as hard as you could. Well done!
Thanks. I think I did. So feel pretty good about it.
All of this except for me BQing.
You never know! Thanks for all your well wishes throughout. We experienced runners need to stick together. And of course I don't mean experience at running, but at life.