Runs4Sanity
I don't want to make it a slow run, and as we've already discusses I am going to run it at my GMP calling it one of those tune-up races. And like I've said, this particular race is very special to me which is why I am running it.
*Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*
PRs
5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace)
10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)
15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)
13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)
26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)
Fine damn it!!! When I registered for the race I put down 4:15:00 as estimated finish time and that was January 1, 2014 (duh). But when training started, I secretly have been hoping for a sub 4 hour or close to 4 hour finish, are you freaking happy now? My LRs average around a 10 min/mile or faster pace and they still feel easy if not over easy for me, except when the heat is killing me or my stomach is having issues.... then even a 10 min/mile pace for say 18 miles can feel like a total bitch. My steps to take to ensure no stomach issues come race day: I am cutting way down on fibery foods starting a week before the race, along with meat and dairy products as they can give me issues when running. Another issue I have is not eating enough, I have found myself to be hungrier these last couple of weeks and starving in the middle of my mid week LR so I've got to make damn sure I eat something before the race. Most likely I'll get up at 4 AM (the race starts at 8 AM) eat a Cinnamon Raisin English muffin with peanut butter, and a banana then go back to bed until 6:15 AM which I will get up to have ONE cup of coffee..... okay maybe 2, then before I leave the hotel I'll probably consume an Energy gu (but I haven't made that last decision final). But like I said, a 9 min/mile pace isn't hard for me and it will be even easier when I am running with others but my biggest goal come race day is to not go out too fast and take it relatively easy for the first half of the race - maybe a 9:30-10:00 min/mile pace. Then when I reach the half way point I hope to start picking it up with each mile, though I am not sure when the wall or any issues of fatigue might hit me so I am not saying this last goal is a sure thing. I'm crazy, stupid and just naive aren't I?
Fine damn it!!! When I registered for the race I put down 4:15:00 as estimated finish time and that was January 1, 2014 (duh). But when training started, I secretly have been hoping for a sub 4 hour or close to 4 hour finish, are you freaking happy now?
My LRs average around a 10 min/mile or faster pace and they still feel easy if not over easy for me, except when the heat is killing me or my stomach is having issues.... then even a 10 min/mile pace for say 18 miles can feel like a total bitch. My steps to take to ensure no stomach issues come race day:
But like I said, a 9 min/mile pace isn't hard for me and it will be even easier when I am running with others but my biggest goal come race day is to not go out too fast and take it relatively easy for the first half of the race - maybe a 9:30-10:00 min/mile pace. Then when I reach the half way point I hope to start picking it up with each mile, though I am not sure when the wall or any issues of fatigue might hit me so I am not saying this last goal is a sure thing.
I'm crazy, stupid and just naive aren't I?
FWIW, and I'm the furthest thing from an expert, I would guess 4:15 (9:45 pace) is a reasonable goal, and it makes sense to go out at that pace. Maybe make 4:30 your C goal. Your 1:56 HM PR according to McMillan projects to 4:05, but that formula assumes higher mileage than you've been doing. So I would think you would have a tough time getting anywhere close to 4:00 (9:09 pace). Especially since going out at that pace would likely risk a late-race blowup, and if you start out at 9:45ish, even if you are feeling good in the 2nd half you will never be able to make up enough time. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Dave
What mileage would I have needed during training to see a 4:05:00 prediction? At this very moment (and I say that in bold for good reason), a 9:45 pace seems a little too conservative for me or at least it's an easy pace for me to handle for 18 miles (this last Sunday's run). BUT, I could definitely see running the first half with a pace between 9:45 - 10:00 and then maybe picking it up and holding it at a pace closer to 9:25 - 9:30. But again, this is all speculation because I am a marathon virgin and I would be more than happy to hit 4:15:00 for my first marathon.
So goals.... how do I do that? Is A the most desired goal, or the most crazy goal? Oh well
Goal A - 4:15:00 finish or faster
Goal B - Finish under 4:30:00
Goal C - Don't Die
I am going to be a nervous wreck as the day draws closer damn it, you guys do know I will be talking crazy before and during Taper right?? Like crazier than your usual runner.......... because I have issues with OCD and obsessing over things
Former Bad Ass
What mileage would I have needed during training to see a 4:05:00 prediction? At this very moment (and I say that in bold for good reason), a 9:45 pace seems a little too conservative for me or at least it's an easy pace for me to handle for 18 miles (this last Sunday's run). BUT, I could definitely see running the first half with a pace between 9:45 - 10:00 and then maybe picking it up and holding it at a pace closer to 9:25 - 9:30. But again, this is all speculation because I am a marathon virgin and I would be more than happy to hit 4:15:00 for my first marathon. So goals.... how do I do that? Is A the most desired goal, or the most crazy goal? Oh well Goal A - 4:15:00 finish or faster Goal B - Finish under 4:30:00 Goal C - Don't Die I am going to be a nervous wreck as the day draws closer damn it, you guys do know I will be talking crazy before and during Taper right?? Like crazier than your usual runner.......... because I have issues with OCD and obsessing over things
70mpw AVERAGE.
Damaris
Yeah.... I'll never reach that lol. I am driving myself crazy just to reach 50 mpw without some force of nature or something against my control fucking things up lol.
That's average, not peak, which means someone like Lily or LTH might have a shot at meeting the McMillan's predictions, but most of us do not.
Screw McMillian's predictions lol
The other option is to run a faster half marathon. And you conveniently have an opportunity to do that this weekend. Ahem.
You forgot to include one of these:
+1
You need solid evidence that you can sustain a 9:00 pace over 26.2 miles. Running 13 miles at that pace won't do that. But maybe a 1:50 HM would back it up. (A 1:50 half points to a 3:51 full, but with lower miles in training, you would not get that. 4:00 would be more realistic)
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
+1 You need solid evidence that you can sustain a 9:00 pace over 26.2 miles. Running 13 miles at that pace won't do that. But maybe a 1:50 HM would back it up. (A 1:50 half points to a 3:51 full, but with lower miles in training, you would not get that. 4:00 would be more realistic)
It would be interesting to try this, but I think being 4 weeks before the full makes it tough to manage.
Also FTR - spring 2013 I ran a 1:48 HM, and 8 weeks later a 4:06 full, on 40-50mpw. (Although it was kind of a warm & hilly full.)
Onemile and Lily, I was thinking about that.....yes indeed. I dont expect a marathon finish faster than 4:15:00, but getting close to that for my first will make me very happy. We will see how this weekend goes.
I never averaged 70 mpw until my last two marathons.
Coming back from my torn PTT in '96 my next two marathons were 4:57 / 5:04 in '99 / '00 - over 90 minutes slower than my '95 marathon. Obviously, I needed to fully rehab my injury and improve my speed. For the next four years I focused on the half marathon distance; '02 - '04 until it projected a BQ. My times dropped from 2:05 - 1:39:47 in '04 which told me I had the speed to go 3:35.
In '05 I ran 3:30:00 averaging 56.7 mpw while my 1:39:47 half - amazingly - projects to the second a 3:30:00 marathon. Admittedly, I was probably in better half marathon shape one year after my 1:39:47 but my next fastest half was a 1:38:26 in '06 so I'm guessing my speed wasn't that much improved. Four years later I dropped my half to 1:37:38 and three years later to 1:36:33 which is my current master PB.
The "trick" is that it's not a prerequisite that you must average 70 mpw to run a faster marathon. That's certainly one way but what's worked for me is improving my speed at shorter distances; 10k - half marathon then carry that speed to the marathon by adding more miles [and obviously tweaking your quality workouts and long runs to some degree]. As I discovered in 2009 when I as running high mileage is that you do not have to tweak it very much when I set my master PB on 6 weeks of training - coming off 5k workouts - with 4 long runs and 2 speed endurance workouts. YMMV.
Based on my marathon PB McMillian projected a 39:26 10k and my PB is 39:47. That year I averaged 17.3 mpw and 33.1 during my marathon schedule. YMMV. My 10k PB is weak [based on my 5k] but looking at the mileage I was recording there is no substitute for speed. ATST my marathon PB is weak due to my lack of endurance / mileage. Still, speed can make up for a lot of weakness' in other areas.
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
I never averaged 70 mpw until my last two marathons. Coming back from my torn PTT in '96 my next two marathons were 4:57 / 5:04 in '99 / '00 - over 90 minutes slower than my '95 marathon. Obviously, I needed to fully rehab my injury and improve my speed. For the next four years I focused on the half marathon distance; '02 - '04 until it projected a BQ. My times dropped from 2:05 - 1:39:47 in '04 which told me I had the speed to go 3:35. In '05 I ran 3:30:00 averaging 56.7 mpw while my 1:39:47 half - amazingly - projects to the second a 3:30:00 marathon. Admittedly, I was probably in better half marathon shape one year after my 1:39:47 but my next fastest half was a 1:38:26 in '06 so I'm guessing my speed wasn't that much improved. Four years later I dropped my half to 1:37:38 and three years later to 1:36:33 which is my current master PB. The "trick" is that it's not a prerequisite that you must average 70 mpw to run a faster marathon. That's certainly one way but what's worked for me is improving my speed at shorter distances; 10k - half marathon then carry that speed to the marathon by adding more miles [and obviously tweaking your quality workouts and long runs to some degree]. As I discovered in 2009 when I as running high mileage is that you do not have to tweak it very much when I set my master PB on 6 weeks of training - coming off 5k workouts - with 4 long runs and 2 speed endurance workouts. YMMV. Based on my marathon PB McMillian projected a 39:26 10k and my PB is 39:47. That year I averaged 17.3 mpw and 33.1 during my marathon schedule. YMMV. My 10k PB is weak [based on my 5k] but looking at the mileage I was recording there is no substitute for speed. ATST my marathon PB is weak due to my lack of endurance / mileage. Still, speed can make up for a lot of weakness' in other areas. 1981 - 3:35:18 zero [0] schedule / one 17 mile long run - 17.0 mpw average / 800 mpy 1982 - 3:22:25 15 week schedule / one 20 miler - 20.0 mpw average / 850 mpy 1983 - 3:05:01 15 week schedule / two 17 milers / one 19 miler - 33.1 mpw average / 900 mpy 1984 - 3:19:30 15 week schedule / four 20 milers / - 32.1 mpw average / 900 mpy 1991 - 3:18:36 22 week schedule / one 19 miler / two 20 milers / one 22 miler - 35.3 mpw average / 1394 mpy 1992 - 3:25:57 19 week schedule / two 18 milers / two 20 milers / one 21 miler / one 22 miler - 44.4 mpw average / 1600 mpy 1993 - 3:13:58 17 week schedule / three 17 milers / one 20 miler / one 22 miler / two 24 milers - 43.2 mpw average / 1722 mpy 1994 - 3:15:12 19 week schedule / two 18 milers / one 20 miler / one 22 miler / one 24 miler / one 25 miler - 44.7 mpw average / 1640 mpy 1995 - 3:12:23 19 week schedule / two 18 milers / two 20 milers / one 22 miler / one 24 miler / one 25 miler / one 26 miler - 44.9 mpw average / 1906 mpy 2005 - 3:30:00 17 week schedule / four 17 milers / three 20 milers / two 21 milers / one 24 miler - 56.8 mpw average / 1867 mpy 2006 - 3:30:21 11 week schedule / one 17 miler / two 20 milers / one 21 miler - 45.7 mpw average / 2020 mpy 2009 - 3:28:13 07 week schedule / two 20 milers / one 22 miler / one 23 miler - 77.1 mpw average / 3700 mpy 2010 - 3:29:16 12 week schedule / one 17 miler / one 18 miler / two 20 milers / one 21 miler / one 22 miler / one 24 miler - 80.0 mpw average / 3500 mpy
I figured not everyone needs to average 70 mpw, but I wasn't going to argue with anyone. I know more mileage helps, but I also know speed workouts play a big part as well, and of course some people are just fast even with distances like 26.2
I didn't focus on any speed workouts during my training, mainly because this is my first and I just want to finish, but I did work on getting comfortable with paces like 9:30-10:00 for distances over 16 miles and all my runs, including my long runs show progression from mile 1 to the last.
I'm not saying that I will see progression like that during the marathon, but I am hoping that my training will help me finish strong.
AND ANOTHER QUESTION:
Have you guys perfected the drinking some water while still running? Or even gels/gu, because I have not quite perfected that without choking on the water so I have had to come to a walk while consuming the gu and water or gatorade. I would like to not have to come to a walk, but I don't want to be choking my guts out damn it.
FS, I hope that you are right about your A goal and that you won't crash during the race. Just keep in mind that you just stated not doing any speedwork, and that you do not run many miles (for marathon training, that is). Being comfortable running at 9:30-10:00 over 16-18 miles doesn't mean you can run 26.2 miles at 9:00. But maybe you can, and if you want to try it, it's really cool and we are all backing you up.