Today ends week 5 of an 18-week marathon training cycle. I had decided on Hansons' because I like running 6 days a week, I like speedwork, and as a slower runner, the shorter long run appeals to me. (Pfitz would have had me run 7 runs of 3 1/2 to 4 hours in 3 months).
Hansons' calls for 2 days of speedwork and a long run. This was my first week to do all 3 and I am seriously doubting my ability to keep it up for the next 13 weeks. I want a rest day today so bad. Nothing is injured but everything feels just "off". I'm in a panic not because I want to rest today, but because I foresee wanting to rest EVERY Sunday. If I can't do the weekly workouts, then I'm not "doing Hansons".
It's only 4 easy miles. I am going to get out there and run it this morning. But - did I do the right thing in choosing Hansons? Is it the right plan for this middle-aged penguin? Is this just the cumulative fatigue effect they WANT me to experience? Is it too late to change plans? Do I even want to change plans? Ugh, this is so early in the game to have all these doubts.
(so my log is hidden because of the game, but just as some background my weekly average for the year is 30 mpw. I added speedwork this year for the first time and set PRs in 5k, 10k, and HM distance. Oh yeah, and I've done the LA Marathon disastrously twice already, which had as much to do with the weather as my training)
Hansons is a tough program. I struggled and I was averaging 50mpw going into it (I used the advanced plan though, it sounds like you are using the beginner?).
Wanting to rest but having to run is normal in marathon training for me. There were so many times this past cycle on a Wednesday night I was supposed to do a workout of double digits and I was tired but I wanted so badly to skip it. Or skip a hard long run. But you run anyway. I felt that way on Hansons but also for any of the subsequent marathon training cycles I have done when I was really trying to be well prepared. You're running on tired legs a lot and it's not much fun most of the time.
Anyway, I think if you are hitting the paces for the workouts (speed, MP runs, long run pace), you're probably fine. And it does get easier. For me, once I got to the strength part of Hansons (week 9?), all of the paces felt a bit easier both times I used the plan. Those first few MP runs were harder than the longer ones later in the plan. Don't be afraid to run the easy runs at the slow end of the range... I know I had some that were MP+2:00 per mile.
There may be other people here smarter than me who can say whether this plan is suitable for your history. But sounds reasonable as a way to take the next step to "get more serious" about marathon training.
Nothing is injured but everything feels just "off".
Get used to it. Yes this is how it's supposed to feel. Wednesday will become your absolute favorite day of the week. By the time you get to the peak, just before taper, it will feel like your body is about break into a million pieces. Hopefully, it won't. Will you injure yourself? Who knows. But how the plan is making your body feel is not necessarily indicative of injury potential, just indicative of marathon training. Good luck!
Dave
And it does get easier. For me, once I got to the strength part of Hansons (week 9?), all of the paces felt a bit easier both times I used the plan. Those first few MP runs were harder than the longer ones later in the plan. Don't be afraid to run the easy runs at the slow end of the range... I know I had some that were MP+2:00 per mile.
I did not find it got easier on my body as the cycle went along, but I did find hitting MP consistently got easier.
I agree that the easy runs (as well as the warmup/cooldown portions of SOS workouts) got really, really sluggish. The first 1-3 miles of everything was like running through cement. But somehow able to turn it on when called for during the quality portion of the workout.
I did not find it got easier on my body as the cycle went along, but I did find hitting MP consistently got easier. I agree that the easy runs (as well as the warmup/cooldown portions of SOS workouts) got really, really sluggish. The first 1-3 miles of everything was like running through cement. But somehow able to turn it on when called for during the quality portion of the workout.
Is this when you were following the plan or when you added all those fast finish long runs?
My one regret my last marathon cycle was trying too hard to stick to the plan (I did Pfitz 18/55). I ended up having a good marathon, but I think I beat myself up too much doing the training and I think I'm still paying for it. Looking back, I wish I had listened to my body and taken more RDs or reduced the speed work. I even wonder if I could have actually had a better race if I had done so, as my time wasn't that much improved (given relative course difficulties) over marathons I had done using considerably easier plans.
It's good to have a plan to follow, but my advice is not to be a slave to it. IMO, it's normal to be feel tired and dead legged by week 10 or 12, but If you are feeling this beat up at 5 weeks, you may want to think about adjusting the plan a bit. Running is not a one size fits all situation. Just because Hansons is a good plan, does not mean it is the best plan for you.
As a slower, middle-aged runner, myself, I coming to realize that my body just can't take the kind of training intensity that I see others engage in. I regret that, but there it is.
Life is good.
Hansons' calls for 2 days of speedwork and a long run.
I have the book but never followed their program. A long run is considered a quality session (along with speed work) and there are weeks when I run 3 quality sessions and there are weeks when I drop one, two or all of them.
I have never been beholden to quality sessions (I am not a spring chicken FFS) whether training for the marathon or a 5k, and for the most part I am pretty good at knowing when to drop a session. But there were times when I should have run easy but ran quality anyway. Sometimes I got away with it and other times I did not.
Some people can plow through 3 Q sessions a week for three months and others need to be more mindful of the toll it's taking both physically and mentally. Having said that a lot of MRT is mental, and usually comes down to overcoming the training malaise for the greater goal; success on race day. This requires the proper rest, nutrition and recovery when you are not running, and the realization that you signed up for it when you are!
Ha. Actually it felt harder on my body the first time around. And even then I didn't really stick to the plan, doing a LR every week. Because I really wanted the mileage volume.
But to OOTB's point, maybe feeling like this at week 5 is a red flag. I am really not qualified to give training advice, but I think it would be helpful for someone to see her log. If she is adding a lot of speedwork and a lot of miles over what she has done historically, it may be too much.
I'm not sure how much speed has to do with it as runners of all abilities can suffer a similar fate, but yes, knowing when to say when is a very important variable where training for the marathon is concerned.
I am really not qualified to give training advice...
+1
I should put that in my siggy.
I have the book but never followed their program. A long run is considered a quality session (along with speed work) and there are weeks when I run 3 quality sessions and there are weeks when I drop one, two or all of them. .... Having said that a lot of MRT is mental, and usually comes down to overcoming the training malaise for the greater goal; success on race day. This requires the proper rest, nutrition and recovery when you are not running, and the realization that you signed up for it when you are!
....
Having said that a lot of MRT is mental, and usually comes down to overcoming the training malaise for the greater goal; success on race day. This requires the proper rest, nutrition and recovery when you are not running, and the realization that you signed up for it when you are!
And the long run is a bit faster than easy - around MP+35 seconds per mile which makes it a little more challenging. I know some people regularly run this for easy runs but I do not.
The hard part of marathon training is that running becomes a huge chore where all runs are longer than I want to run and easy runs suck because my legs are so beat up from hard runs. So then every run becomes "hard"... you have workouts, and then you have recovery runs where you drag your tired and sore legs along at a sad and slow pace.
And the long run is a bit faster than easy - around MP+35 seconds per mile which makes it a little more challenging. I know some people regularly run this for easy runs but I do not. The hard part of marathon training is that running becomes a huge chore where all runs are longer than I want to run and easy runs suck because my legs are so beat up from hard runs. So then every run becomes "hard"... you have workouts, and then you have recovery runs where you drag your tired and sore legs along at a sad and slow pace.
The only way I was able to get through my three long runs this past cycle was to literally to put some pep in my step! I ran each of them faster than my easy runs but didn't purposely set out to do that, it was a sub-conscious thing.
On the flip side, in the past when I purposely ran them at easy pace or slower, They. Were. Miserable.
Are we there, yet?
If you were in your 50s or 60s I'd have hesitations about following a program like Hanson's, otherwise it's about having a strong base and being used to running quality workouts. Despite Hansons statements, I don't think 30 mpw is a strong enough base for their training schedules. Ditto if you aren't used to running as many quality sessions weekly. The intensity of speed workouts can take more out of you and require more recovery than a long run. You could probably follow a modified schedule either cutting back a little on the speed workouts, e.g. turning one into an easy run of moderate length, or taking an extra rest day when needed.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
I have used Hansons but not been a slave to it. It is not an easy or semi-easy plan. None of this stuff is if you are really trying to push yourself. And as I am no spring chicken either, you have to know when/if you are going to redline. I used it by establishing my own base first and then just training the last 12 weeks or so on the plan. I couldn't hang with a plan for 18 weeks. I agree that for me the strength part of the plan was a more of a relief with the "easier" paces. I did focus on the 3 quality runs and would cut down on the other three days as needed...but not too much.
For me, all of this stuff goes back to have a sufficient base to do this. I don't know if yours was too low. Everybody's different and our bodies tolerate this stuff differently. The other thing I will add goes back to have a realistic goal. Being too ambitious early on can lead to frustration or a false sense of thinking you're faster than what you are - again, it depends on where you are really at. I would start with a slower goal and adjust upwards as your body adapts to the plan. You will see your fitness pleasantly increase and you can dial in a more realistic goal for race day. And you should keep your easy runs really easy. Don't worry about pace. The body will incorporate the work that you're putting in.
I found that later on in the cycle when you're doing the MP run for 9 to 10 miles midweek gets to be a chore. I almost used to dread it but knew it would pay off down the road and it did. If you need to skip an easy day now and again, it's not going to sabotage the plan. Then there is the mental battle in all of this But overall, you can manage the six days a weeks if you manage the energy output and not run too fast when there is no need. Hang in there, we are all still are part of the running experiment.
marathon pr - 3:16
I only have one marathon under my belt, and it was using Hansons. I agree that it is deceptively hard. People focus on the 16 miles LR every other week and think it is an easy plan. I know that is what *I* thought.
I think that if it is already difficult on week 5, there might be something to change. You don't want to burn yourself out this soon.
You can try skipping SOS runs, as some have suggested, but I think i would reconsider all my paces. If all your paces were 10-15 seconds/mile slower, would you still be laboring at the end of the week? If not, maybe an option would be to slow down your quality sessions a bit instead of skipping them.
I am not qualified to give advice either... just sharing something I'd try.