Beginners and Beyond

Let's talk fuel during runs/races (Read 113 times)

happylily


    I think it's most about time and not miles.

     

    True.

     

    And great post, jjs.

    PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

            Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

    18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

    Love the Half


      It's not about time or miles exclusively.

       

      You could go out and stroll for 6 or 7 hours with nothing and you wouldn't exhaust your glycogen simply because at that level of exertion, you'll be burning mostly fat.  You could jog for 30 miles and not exhaust your glycogen if you jogged easily enough.

       

      As you sit there reading this, your fuel is coming almost exclusively from fat.  Your body burns fat preferentially because even those with very low body fat percentages will have something like 35,000-50,000 calories of fat in their bodies as compared to maybe 1,500-2,000 calories of glycogen.  As the intensity of your exercise increases, so does the percentage of your energy coming from glycogen.  At some point, nearly all of your energy will be coming from glycogen.  However, if you run so intensely that nearly all of your energy comes from glycogen, you probably won't be able to exhaust your glycogen supplies.  Why?  Because you'll be over your lactate threshold and that will cause you to slow long before you run out of glycogen.  Thus, you only run out of glycogen in events that last a while and in which you are running at a fair degree of intensity.  A marathon is the perfect distance to cause you to crap out.  Bear in mind that elite runners will be running a marathon somewhere around 80-85% of VO2max.  Most of us will be closer to 70-75%.  My guess is that people who are running slower than 11:00 or 12:00 per mile are closer to 60% and thus in no danger of glycogen exhaustion during a half marathon.

       

      Having said that, there are enormous individual variations in glycogen storage.  As with everything, there are genetic differences.  Beyond that, a trained athlete may be able to store twice as much glycogen as an untrained person and people who have only been running less than a year would fall into the "untrained" category even if they do have enough endurance to finish a half marathon.  It is possible, even at their 60% VO2max exertion level, that they could run out of glycogen.  I have my doubts but it is possible.

       

      One last consideration.  Many people take in way, way more than they need in a half marathon.  The problem with this is that your body preferentially shuts down the blood flow to your digestive system in favor of your exercising muscles when you race.  Take a bunch of gels and it is entirely possible that you'll experience severe gastric distress and I can promise you that the severe gastric distress will slow you down much, much more than some perceived fatigue.

      Short term goal: 17:59 5K

      Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

      Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).


      @runjerseygirl

        I'm just going to add my 0.02 in here.  I've only run one half, and I didn't use anything during training.  I didn't even take water with me.

         

        I had no fuel plan when I went into the race.  I took water when I felt I needed it, Gatorade when I wanted something more refreshing, and Gu twice, when I felt like I was draining.

         

        It was the first time I'd ever had them, and I handled them fine.

         

        Finished my race under my goal time by two minutes, and promptly wanted to die.

         

        No plan isn't always the best plan, but overthinking might cause more stress than necessary.

        Do you even run?

          ...Hydration in a half-marathon depends mostly on the weather.

          Hydration will likely depend on the duration of the race more so than the distance - plus the weather and probably some other things. Not everyone is doing their HM in 1:35. Some of our local ones with hills may take over 3 hrs, even for the fast folks. And a newer (new to running) or older (age) runner, even on a fast course, may easily be out there over 2 hrs.

           

          oops - should have read the rest of the thread first to see this was already addressed.

          "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog
          LRB


            I think it's most about time and not miles.

             

            That is a good way to look at it, I think it's mostly about where one is as a runner.

             

            For me, I have found that the more I run, the less I need to run.  This applies to fuel, attire, accessories, electronics, etc..

             

            For where Kristin is, she may very well need (need being relative) everything she intends to have.  There may come a time though, when she will look back and smile at how much she has changed.  No different than any of us who are self-trained runners.

            Venomized


            Drink up moho's!!

              I think it's most about time and not miles.

               

              Seems that more runners think in terms of miles though rather than time.  Since the timing clock is not always found on the course but rather the mile markers are, people know that they will cover a mile in X minutes so a 10 minute/mile racer knows they will hit the 45 minute mark somewhere between mile marker 4 and 5 so they plan to look for the aide station around that point to take a gel going in to the aide station.  I'd rather have a plan to take a gel every 5 miles at 5, 10, 15, etc than be thinking in my head alright 45 minutes, 1:30, 2:15 oh wait was the last gel at 1:20 or 1:40.

               

              Keep it simple.  Run more, think less.

              kristin10185


              Skirt Runner

                So glad I asked.....such great info!!

                 

                So, based on your feedback I think I will revise my plan. I will stick to GU, water and Gatorade and eliminate the beans... Might be too much different stuff in my tummy and I think the beans are my least fave anyway (though maybe I will carry some "just in case.") if taking a GU every 45 minutes is what is recommended, for me that is going to be about 4-4.5 miles in. There's no aid station at 4, mile 3 and 5 only so I will probably do this: 

                 

                 

                Water Station 1: 3 miles- water

                Water Station 2: 5 miles- water and GU

                Water Station 3: 6 miles- skip it unless I am really thirsty, if so just water

                Water Station 4: 7.5 miles- Gatorade

                Water Station 5: 9 miles- water and a second GU

                Water Station 6: 10.5 miles- skip it or water if I'm very thirsty

                Water Station 7: 12 miles- Gatorade

                 

                Thoughts?

                PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

                 

                I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

                Venomized


                Drink up moho's!!

                  Personally I think 2 GUs for a half is excessive but stick with the way you have been training.  As for taking a GU every 45 minutes well that advise comes from the makers of the gels who's master plan is to sell more gels.  You might find you can delay taking the first and not need the second gel.  I do not recommend taking a gel and washing it down with G-ade as that will likely set off a sugar bomb in your stomach.

                   

                  I am guessing that you are close to race day so if that is the case now is not the time to be experimenting but rather fine tuning the race plan.  After the race make your experimental refinements based on how the race went.

                  Docket_Rocket


                  Former Bad Ass

                    I take two GUs during a goal HM and I'm faster than Kristin, so to me, the plan looks OK.  I wouldn't do Gatorade if I'm doing GU, though, and I would stick with water during those miles.  But I don't think it will hurt your stomach so long as you keep drinking water.

                    Damaris

                    meaghansketch


                      I think your plan is good as a starting point-- you have (at least) one long run left so you can try it out to some extent in training.  It's always different at race pace but you should be able to get some idea of what your stomach will and won't tolerate.

                      Goorun


                        This is a topic where I'm on the scale 1 to 10, where 1 is being very helpful and supportive and 10 is an a-hole, usually around 8-9 Blush.

                        Because of that, I'm glad that LTH covered this topic well.

                        Over the years, I mellowed down and now I agree that everybody is different and you have to do what works for you (even if it's just in your head). Saying that, I'll never change my opinion that 90% of participants in any given half marathon are taking in way more than they have to. You need water, when it's too hot, but that is pretty much it as far as need.

                        One thing we all probably agree on is DO NOT EXPERIMENT IN THE RACE. If you have a fuelling plan you want to follow, try it in your training.

                        and +1 to this from LRB's post :

                        For where Kristin is, she may very well need (need being relative) everything she intends to have.  There may come a time though, when she will look back and smile at how much she has changed.  No different than any of us who are self-trained runners.

                         

                        One more thing. The beverage Venomized is suggesting with his avatar might not be the way to go prior to a race.

                        Slow and steady never wins anything.

                        Goorun


                          I take two GUs during a goal HM and I'm faster than Kristin, so to me, the plan looks OK.  I wouldn't do Gatorade if I'm doing GU, though, and I would stick with water during those miles.  But I don't think it will hurt your stomach so long as you keep drinking water.

                           

                          +1

                          another thing some people don't understand is that you have to drink water with GUs for it to work.

                          If you are carrying a hand held or *gulp* a fuel belt, dissolve GU in water and put it in your bottle instead of carrying gels.

                          Slow and steady never wins anything.

                          Docket_Rocket


                          Former Bad Ass

                            This is a topic where I'm on the scale 1 to 10, where 1 is being very helpful and supportive and 10 is an a-hole, usually around 8-9 Blush.

                            Because of that, I'm glad that LTH covered this topic well.

                            Over the years, I mellowed down and now I agree that everybody is different and you have to do what works for you (even if it's just in your head). Saying that, I'll never change my opinion that 90% of participants in any given half marathon are taking in way more than they have to. You need water, when it's too hot, but that is pretty much it as far as need.

                            One thing we all probably agree on is DO NOT EXPERIMENT IN THE RACE. If you have a fuelling plan you want to follow, try it in your training.

                            and +1 to this from LRB's post :

                            For where Kristin is, she may very well need (need being relative) everything she intends to have.  There may come a time though, when she will look back and smile at how much she has changed.  No different than any of us who are self-trained runners.

                             

                            One more thing. The beverage Venomized is suggesting with his avatar might not be the way to go prior to a race.

                             

                            Even the water intake varies from person to person.  I run in 90F+ and hardly drink water even during LRs.  And I agree with the rest of your post.

                            Damaris

                            Love the Half


                               

                              One more thing. The beverage Venomized is suggesting with his avatar might not be the way to go prior to a race.

                               

                              However, I can say from my Boston experience that beer during a race ain't half bad.  Cool

                              Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                              Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                              Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                              LRB


                                 However, I can say from my Boston experience that beer during a race ain't half bad.  Cool

                                 

                                The brewski I had at mile 24 of my last marathon (around 4 ounces), was quite possibly the best brew I have ever had!