Beginners and Beyond

Let's talk fuel during runs/races (Read 113 times)

Docket_Rocket


Former Bad Ass

    I agree that a person doesn't *need* any calories to finish an HM, and that pretty much no one (excepting people on low-carb diets, etc.) is at risk of glycogen depletion during an HM, but that doesn't mean that a person's performance won't benefit from taking in carbs.  There are plenty of studies showing that even in short bouts of exercise people's performance can be improved with carbohydrate intake.  I have no doubt that I could finish a half marathon without taking in any carbs, but if it means even a small performance boost (and assuming you don't usually experience adverse effects from them), why not do it?

     

    ^this.

    Damaris

    Love the Half


      LTH, how much does a person's weight alter the equation? My weight is closer to 135. Also, what effects do heat and humidity have? I have been told that it is more important to fuel with a GU during the summer.

       

      My last 13 mile run was a month ago. I ran it in 3:05. It was 84 degrees outside, with a dewpoint of 74. Dailymile.com says I burned 2243 calories on that run. That doesn't seem to line up with your math, unless you are differentiating between "regular" calories and glycogen calories.

       

      Daily Mile is way wrong.  If you weigh less, you'll burn fewer calories. Calories are a measure of energy.  It takes energy to move a weight a particular distance.  It doesn't matter how quickly or slowly you move the weight that distance.  It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold (unless it's really, really cold).  It does matter if it's hilly or very windy.  But, assuming a flat course, it takes the same amount of energy to move "x" pounds "y" distance no matter how hot it is or no matter how fast or slowly you do it.  It takes less energy to move less weight and hence a 135 pound runner will burn fewer calories than a 170 pound runner.  A 135 pound runner will burn about 1,300 calories during a half marathon.

       

      Of course, you'll sweat a lot more in the heat and you'll need to replace some of the water you are losing.  Plus, if you are going to be out in hot weather that long, you need to take in something with a good bit of sodium to reduce the risk of hyponatremia.

      Short term goal: 17:59 5K

      Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

      Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

      Love the Half


        I agree that performance in a half marathon will be helped by consuming carbs.  I do not think it is necessary, or wise, to take in 3 or 4 GU's without the recommended amount of water accompanying them along with hitting every Gatorade and water station.  All that's going to do is leave you feeling miserably bloated the final 3.1 miles.

        Short term goal: 17:59 5K

        Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

        Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

        LRB


          ^this.

           

          Is it ^this or ^that?  That is the question.

          meaghansketch


            I agree that performance in a half marathon will be helped by consuming carbs.  I do not think it is necessary, or wise, to take in 3 or 4 GU's without the recommended amount of water accompanying them along with hitting every Gatorade and water station.  All that's going to do is leave you feeling miserably bloated the final 3.1 miles.

             

            It's possible I missed a post in this thread, but I don't think there's anyone recommending that.

            Docket_Rocket


            Former Bad Ass

               

              It's possible I missed a post in this thread, but I don't think there's anyone recommending that.

               

              I think that was Kristin's plan at some point in time.

              Damaris

              slowrunningjulie


                 

                Daily Mile is way wrong.  If you weigh less, you'll burn fewer calories. Calories are a measure of energy.  It takes energy to move a weight a particular distance.  It doesn't matter how quickly or slowly you move the weight that distance.  It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold (unless it's really, really cold).  It does matter if it's hilly or very windy.  But, assuming a flat course, it takes the same amount of energy to move "x" pounds "y" distance no matter how hot it is or no matter how fast or slowly you do it.  It takes less energy to move less weight and hence a 135 pound runner will burn fewer calories than a 170 pound runner.  A 135 pound runner will burn about 1,300 calories during a half marathon.

                 

                Of course, you'll sweat a lot more in the heat and you'll need to replace some of the water you are losing.  Plus, if you are going to be out in hot weather that long, you need to take in something with a good bit of sodium to reduce the risk of hyponatremia.

                 

                Thanks. I find this to be a very interesting discussion, because although I feel a benefit from taking gels, I have noticed that it seems to provide diminishing returns for me at longer distances. During the Shamrock marathon, I had planned to take a gel at mile 18 and it almost  made me vomit. I couldn't eat it. But I finished up the race just fine and actually felt better after that low point.

                Upcoming:

                 

                July 27 - San Francisco marathon


                Hip Redux

                  One of our clients works to make sports energy "stuff" (gels, etc).  There's a body of evidence that your perception of 'sweet' changes during exercise so that mildly sweet stuff can start to taste sickenly sweet to you.

                   


                  Wandering Wally

                    For me, I've found taking in ~100 calories per hour works well for events longer than a HM.  For me, those calories need to be liquid or something like a PB&J, chips, Oreos, watermelon, trail mix, etc.  The longer I go, the more I want protein and salt.  More than one or two gels and I'm running off the trail to find a nice port-a-tree.  I learned all of this through trial and error.

                     

                    For a HM, I can get all the carbs I need through liquid calories.

                     

                    I make my own sports drink to use at times which is 1 teaspoon of honey (unfiltered) to 3 ounces of water.  If it's warm I'll add a little salt.  My stomach handles the natural honey much better than other forms of carbs.  I also seem to tolerate Gatorade (made from powder) and HEED fairly well, so I will use those for the convenience factor.

                     

                    We are definitely all different.  Testing fueling strategies in training is the right thing to do and then stick with it on race day.

                    Run!  Just Run!

                     

                    Trail Runner Nation Podcast

                    happylily


                      I admit I used to consume one gel during my first HMs. The first 3, I believe. I think it was the desire to slow down a bit to take them with water that would make me want them badly. It was like wanting to rest more than wanting the calories. Now, I always fear that if I slow down for a gel (I'm still not very good at grabbing a cup of water while running), I won't be mentally strong enough to pick up the pace after. Also, I find that the faster I learn to run, the more my stomach has become queasy at the idea of ingestiing anything similar to a gel. Gatorade, or anything like it, is ok, though... Everyone is so different... In a marathon, I will barely have a gel. For Boston, I did one gel, water and about 3  gatorade cups.

                      PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                              Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                      18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                      happylily


                        I want to add: I do eat a full bagel with PB about 2 hours before a race. And I always eat well the day before.

                        PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                        18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                        LRB


                          There's a body of evidence that your perception of 'sweet' changes during exercise so that mildly sweet stuff can start to taste sickenly sweet to you.

                           

                          Great point.  It explains why chewing gum became less appealing to me the further I ran, to the point where I would spit it out 20 feet in disgust.  I no longer run with any.

                           

                          As for gels, if I get one of them things down during a run I am doing good.  Like B Plus, I experimented with them for the first time this year in prep for my fall marathon, and while they give me no issues and otherwise taste really good, I find it difficult to choke one down the longer I run.

                           

                          For me, it is better if I take one over the course of a few miles, rather than all at once.

                          happylily


                             

                            Great point.  It explains why chewing gum became less appealing to me the further I ran, to the point where I would spit it out 20 feet in disgust.  I no longer run with any.

                             

                            As for gels, if I get one of them things down during a run I am doing good.  Like B Plus, I experimented with them for the first time this year in prep for my fall marathon, and while they give me no issues and otherwise taste really good, I find it difficult to choke one down the longer I run.

                             

                            For me, it is better if I take one over the course of a few miles, rather than all at once.

                             

                            I do the same thing. I suck on one over the course of two miles. It's not so overwhelming then.

                            PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                    Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                            18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                            LRB


                              I do eat a full bagel with PB about 2 hours before a race. And I always eat well the day before.

                              Doing that is all I really ever needed to race any distance.

                               

                              For the marathon, I take it a step further and eat well the entire week of the event.  At no point however, do I overeat.  There is a difference.

                              Docket_Rocket


                              Former Bad Ass

                                Most of my LRs and marathons start

                                at 5-6am so I cannot eat anything prior because my stomach hates me.  So, most of my races have an empty stomach.  When I do destination marathons, I try to eat something.  I even got a full breakfast before berlin.

                                Damaris