Marathon Trainers


Week of 8/9/2010 (Read 191 times)

    Wednesday: 10.3 miles of rolling hills, felt good and pace was all over the place (depending on terrain) but 8:17 average I think.

    Thursday: 6.4 hilly trail miles, ran from my office out to just past the 3 mile mark of the Equinox trail, then back and finished on the last bit of the ultra course. Felt good, but I did step on a root 'wrong' and twisted my foot a little. Sharp "ouch" then it faded. I also had a problem with my eye tearing a lot... hard to see the roots and such when your eye is watering. Not sure what that was all about.

    Friday: planning on an easy 3-4 miler on the flat trail. It's really foggy out this morning still, hope that lifts soon. It's supposed to be "partly sunny" today but no sign of the sun yet.


    My heart rate is naturally pretty high, I think. Odd that my resting is in the mid to upper 40's most days, but I can run for a long time in the mid-to-upper 170's. I've never worn the HRM during a race though... would be interesting to do sometime. I always have it in my bag, and usually think of it when I'm a couple miles into my run.


    Nice run with repeats, Kimmie! You're coming back very nicely. And DS2 says he doesn't like running, but he'll go out for a run (by himself) every now and then. He won't run with me though, which is a bummer (for me). I think he just does the runs to keep in shape for soccer.


    Re: the garden. Well... moose are big deer. What are deer really good at? Jumping. We've tried fences in the past, from electric (they don't notice) to boards, and even wire mesh. Can't seem to get it tall enough. Makes the mowing really difficult. And once the moose jump IN the fence, they seem to have a harder time getting out and end up doing more damage than if they just "walk thru." So for now, we try our luck, and resort to the farmers' market if needed. So far, they've stayed out of it with the plastic sheeting on it (they don't like to walk on it, and they can't lift it... but it can bend or knock down plants and the beans don't like the lack of air flow...)

      I was wondering about the jumping thing, but I couldn't picture Bullwinkle jumping very high.

      Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews |


        Leaving for 10 days on a trip to Florida- REALLY Long drive, by myself, with my girls.   This is how much I want to see my sister.    I still haven't figured out posting from the phone, so I won't be here much.  I hope to run plenty, though.

        It feels so weird to not be training for a marathon.  I am signed up for the Army Ten Miler.  So, I should be able to do that-  just need to get a run in over 6 miles.  i'm not too worried about it-  It's at the end of October.

        We come back from Florida on the 24th-  16 hour drive-  and we have a bday party here 3 days later for DD2 and then we leave for the Outer Banks on the 28th for a week.   That's a crazy way to end the summer, but it's just how it worked out.

        I plan to run a lot down in the Outer Banks, too.

        My plan today is to listen to audio books and I hope that helps with all of the driving.  I may be posting my cell # on facebook and asking people to call me to talk me through it.  Smile  Did I mention that we're staying with the inlaws without my DH?  Smile  Crazy....

        Erika- I hope that moose has made no appearances lately.

        On the road again...

          Have a good trip, Kim.

          Dave, Lou, and everyone else who knows more about marathons (wait, that IS everyone else ) - my frustration with MP runs is that they feel so much harder NOW in 80F weather than that same pace will feel in 40-50F weather after a taper.  It just really messes with my mind.  I do wear a HRM on all my runs so that I can look back at the data, and I'd say that I'm very comfortable in the 150-160 range.  Once I start hanging out up around 170, I'm gonna have to back down in a longer race.  I think I'm gonna train for the marathon with pace runs in the 9:45-10:00 range.  What I struggle with, though, is that is the range for most of my easy runs, so what am I missing?  Should my MP be that similar to easy runs?

          Okay, I'll just sit back and soak in all the wisdom.  TIA.

          I have a love/hate relationship with running. I do it, but sometimes I love to hate it.


            MP is not easy pace.  Long runs should be run at an easy pace though.  When first starting out, most people just don't have the endurance built up to go any faster than an easy pace over longer distances.

            On my best marathon, my race pace was about 30-40 seconds faster than my easy pace on long runs.  Recovery runs were even slower, about 1-1.5 minute per mile slower than MP.

            MP is one of those in between paces.  Figuring out the right one for your level of fitness is the million dollar question.  Once it gets cooler, pick a long run and try to hold your MP for the second half (or maybe the last third).  You'll need more recovery but you should get a good idea of whether you can hold that pace or not.  I thought I could hold a pretty face pace at National a few years ago.  I could not.

            7 miles for me on the treadmill today in a little over an hour.  2 mile warm up, then progressively faster (.2 per 1/4 mile) until I was running about a 7:10 pace.  I tend to do these types of runs on the treadmill.  I'm afraid they're junk though, training neither endurance nor real speed.

            I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.


            Happy Camper

              Paul:  To answer if your marathon pace should be that similar to your easy pace, I think it depends on the distance.  For 5 - 10 miles marathon pace will feel easy and won't drive up the heart rate much past 60 - 70% of Heart Rate Reserve.  Once you get beyond 13 miles and into that 16 - 20 mile range, that's when marathon pace becomes more difficult to maintain.  It's also warmer out so heart rate will drift up into that General Aerobic Range of 70 - 80% of Heart Rate Reserve to the Anaerobic zone of 80 - 90% if you can hold it.  It's why  short runs should be  pushed harder than your mid-long to long runs.  I think the heart rate monitor is more  important during the early part of a longer run.  You want to keep the effort within reason during the early part of the run and let loose and push harder in the latter stages.  I really hate those runs where the last 3-miles are one long swan dive yet the average pace for  the run is within your training run goal range.  I get more out of a stronger finish to the distance I'm going. 


              10.3 on the MKT this morning.  Nice flat hill free run.  Heat alert finally ends Sunday evening!

              Determination: The feeling you get right before you try something incredibly stupid.


                Erika and I seem to have similar heart rates.   When I am in marathon shape  resting heart rate is about 41,  now it is about 49.


                When I race, my heart rate is usually between 167 and 173 during a marathon.    The final tenth of  a mile in a 10k race is often 193.

                On the road again...

                  At the risk of bugging you all, I don't think I've been clear enough...

                  When I plug my best 5k and HM times into McMillan, Daniels, etc I get marathon times ranging from 8:57 to 9:18.  Obviously this is about 30-45 seconds/mile faster than my easy pace, which is anywhere from 9:40 to 10:10 or so.  My long runs tend toward 10:30 to 10:45, and recovery runs are around 11:15.  All this makes sense, and seems to be in line with what should be expected.  Now, here's what always blows my mind about marathon pace runs...they're hard, and I always finish them thinking those predicted times are crazy.  Take my 5 mile MP run this week: 

                  Type Distance Time Total Time Pace Avg HR Max HR
                  Interval 1 Mi 9:27.15 9:27.15 9:28 145 155  
                  Interval 1 Mi 9:21.77 18:48.92 9:22 157 165  
                  Interval 1 Mi 9:08.73 27:57.65 9:09 162 167  
                  Interval 1 Mi 9:08.31 37:05.96 9:09 169 174  
                  Interval 1 Mi 9:00.58 46:06.54 9:01 173 178

                  Those first 3 miles were in my easy, aerobic range, and the last 2 drifted up into the anaerobic levels, but just barely.  Ended the run with an AHR of 161.  I have no doubt that those paces will feel somewhat easier when it's 30 degrees cooler, but when I got done I kept thinking there's no way I'll run the entire marathon like that, even thought my avg pace for this run was 9:14, which is right on with the predictor.

                  I feel like I'm rambling and I'm sorry to bore you guys.  So, finally, we make it to the big question: In marathon training, are the MP runs supposed to be hard, even in these early stages of the training?  I'm assuming that I should just run most of my runs at easy and long run pace, and then once a week or every other week really work to make those MP runs.  Am I assuming correctly?  Do I trust the 9:15 pace that these indicators give me and keep that as my target pace for the December marathon?

                  If you read this far, I need to buy you a big ol glass of iced tea at Nationals next year.

                  I have a love/hate relationship with running. I do it, but sometimes I love to hate it.


                    Paul, what is the highest HR you've ever recorded?

                    I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.


                    On the road again...

                      Paul, what is the highest HR you've ever recorded?



                      I have a love/hate relationship with running. I do it, but sometimes I love to hate it.

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                        FWIW, my McMillan predicted MP is the pace at which I ran my HM this spring; it's faster than I can hold for a marathon.


                        Off to race a 5K this morning. So much less bother than racing a marathon Smile

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                          Looks like Paul is getting some good advice.  I would throw in that the temps are really affecting you (and the rest of us).  I agree with Perry though that McMillan has aggressive times.

                          20.2 miles, 3:05:49, 9:12/mi, AHR 147 (72% MHR) for me today.  Again a bit slow, but the weather really cooperated, given the 70° dew point.  It was overcast and rained for a third of the run, helping to cool me off some.

                          61.9 mile week - longest since week ending 8/9/09 (62) which is my PR

                          Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews |