And I HATE ASTHMA.

There, I said it...for the 100000000000000th time. 

TODAY:

progression run

with

MAF test 1-mile

13:09 pace

aerobic speed heading in the correct direction

 

--Jimmy

Hi Jimmy,

It is interesting to see what you are doing with the interval type training.  And I just want to say Hi to everybody.  It is great to see the new people on here, and to see some veterens like Cmon2, labhiker, runnerclay and C-R.

I have definitely been less active on here, as well as with running in general.  I am more of a 10-15 mile per week person, than a 20 mile per week person, like I use to be.

My more recent 5Ks tend to be around 24 minutes now.  When I was running more, they were around 22 minutes.  What is interesting is that it takes time to gain and to lose that areobic fitness, it seems.  For example, when my running volume started to go down, I was able to keep my areobic fitness that I had gained for a long time after.  It works the other way too.  If I increase the volume, the benefits take a while to see.

Anyway, to the point of this post.  From what I have read, is that a shorter rest period does have the benefit of keeping you in that LT zone longer.  You get to it quicker on the next interval.  Now if you do a real long rest period, the benefits of the interval changes, but it is still very beneficial.  The longer rest periods allow you to fully recover, and thus you are not stressing yourelf so much, so that if you want to run the next day, you are more recoved.  The biggest benefit to intervals with longer rest periods is that you are training your neurological system to just be faster.

I notice that now I am older, I am just losing speed.  The ability to just go fast for a short distance.  I have read that it is important for older runners to try to stay in touch with speed more.  One recommendation, that I read about that is very good for speed training and for neurological development is running short hill intervals (like 30 seconds) with aobut 2 minutes of walking in between.  I have done these and I feel like they have helped to just feel faster.

I did some quarter mile intervals, a while back, and really enjoyed them.  It is nice to just go fast once in a while, and actually work up a sweat.  A few days later, I definitely felt faster.  My stride just felt smoother.  It was like I got the rust out of my joints.  It almost has the feeling like my joints are getting oiled.  I feel less resistance from my muscles.  And my leg muscles are getting a little more stretched out, etc.   I notice that I feel pretty slow in the first interval, and each following one, I just feel looser and faster.

Added:

I recall reading that for intervals to work optimally that you need to oscillate between being over your threshold and under your threshold.   I imagine that you must have to have a good feel for what is right for you.  The idea is that you get threshold benefit and time over the threshold, without the stress of just doing it all at once.  I have read about tempo runs where you run 3 miles, but you do 1 minute rest between each mile.  The idea is that you get the same benefit of a 3 mile tempo run, but you are able to recover better when you add the rest periods.  Keeping this to less than 10% total volume is usually the recommendation too.

Hi, guys.

My week has been weird.  First I had that asthma attack, then took a day off.  11 miles on Thursday at 149 and very fast pace, two 6 milers at 149 and very strong runs.  Then, I had a 16 with MP + 10% (150HR or 11mm, whichever is faster).  I had to bail at Mile 12 because I was extremely nauseous but I did 12 @ 150HR and it came to 10:43mm.  That is a nice pace.  Stupid me for running with stomach issues but I never thought they would be that bad.

Still, this has been my strongest week of this training cycle, asthma and all.  Cutback week to so better to have happened then than on a 22 miler.

That is awesome, npaden.

Morning!  I had 8 miles last night at 147HR and 10:56mm.  Considering the day before I couldn't get up for the life of me after my bad run, it was nice to have a good run for a chance.

Hey C,

 

What in particular? What's your method of measuring your fitness?

 

I go by the speed at LT and MAF as indicators as to what shape I'm in. Also similar training runs. Races are good indicators, of course. But when I'm not racing, see the first two sentence in this paragraph.

 

I do check HR/pace relationship at LT and other HR ranges.

I also check pace on its own at the intensity I feel is around LT. I also look at how maintainable it is over a distance. HR itself can be up or down a bit depending on a few things such as the temperature. (higher temps = slightly higher HR is maintainable, the opposite in cold weather, etc. and temperature isn't the only one factor but I haven't figured out the others yet )

another important thing I check is how my legs feel. e.g. if the HR is relatively low for pace on a given day but legs don't feel too springy then I know it's not due to improvement. it's more due to it still recovering from some previous load. or if HR is normal for pace but legs feel particularly great that means it might've been a good day to do a race.

breathing can also be different on some days. and just subjective feeling of intensity in general, this one is hard to describe.

then there can be the case of HR being fine, breathing being fine but legs not maintaining the LT pace without effort for long enough. at a minimum that means it's not a day to race. in the worst case, you have to make sure it doesn't become a tendency.

so yeah of course I look for overall trend/tendencies in all this.

 

Hi Jimmy,

It is interesting to see what you are doing with the interval type training.  And I just want to say Hi to everybody.  It is great to see the new people on here, and to see some veterens like Cmon2, labhiker, runnerclay and C-R.

 

I have definitely been less active on here, as well as with running in general.  I am more of a 10-15 mile per week person, than a 20 mile per week person, like I use to be.

 

My more recent 5Ks tend to be around 24 minutes now.  When I was running more, they were around 22 minutes.  What is interesting is that it takes time to gain and to lose that areobic fitness, it seems.  For example, when my running volume started to go down, I was able to keep my areobic fitness that I had gained for a long time after.  It works the other way too.  If I increase the volume, the benefits take a while to see.

 

Anyway, to the point of this post.  From what I have read, is that a shorter rest period does have the benefit of keeping you in that LT zone longer.  You get to it quicker on the next interval.  Now if you do a real long rest period, the benefits of the interval changes, but it is still very beneficial.  The longer rest periods allow you to fully recover, and thus you are not stressing yourelf so much, so that if you want to run the next day, you are more recoved.  The biggest benefit to intervals with longer rest periods is that you are training your neurological system to just be faster.

 

I notice that now I am older, I am just losing speed.  The ability to just go fast for a short distance.  I have read that it is important for older runners to try to stay in touch with speed more.  One recommendation, that I read about that is very good for speed training and for neurological development is running short hill intervals (like 30 seconds) with aobut 2 minutes of walking in between.  I have done these and I feel like they have helped to just feel faster.

 

I did some quarter mile intervals, a while back, and really enjoyed them.  It is nice to just go fast once in a while, and actually work up a sweat.  A few days later, I definitely felt faster.  My stride just felt smoother.  It was like I got the rust out of my joints.  It almost has the feeling like my joints are getting oiled.  I feel less resistance from my muscles.  And my leg muscles are getting a little more stretched out, etc.   I notice that I feel pretty slow in the first interval, and each following one, I just feel looser and faster.

 

Added:

I recall reading that for intervals to work optimally that you need to oscillate between being over your threshold and under your threshold.   I imagine that you must have to have a good feel for what is right for you.  The idea is that you get threshold benefit and time over the threshold, without the stress of just doing it all at once.  I have read about tempo runs where you run 3 miles, but you do 1 minute rest between each mile.  The idea is that you get the same benefit of a 3 mile tempo run, but you are able to recover better when you add the rest periods.  Keeping this to less than 10% total volume is usually the recommendation too.

hey there

why are you less active lately with your running?

yes very fast intervals with long rest will work your neuromuscular system. but those are done at a pretty fast pace between full recoveries.

and yes I feel speed work oils my muscles/joints whatnot, just like you describe. the only important thing is the next day after faster running must be a recovery day (very easy *and* short run or a day off).

I didn't try the oscillating version of tempo runs but this sounds interesting. not sure though if I understood you right. by 1 minute rest do you mean full rest (walking at most)? if so, I do that and I just call that LT intervals. 3x or 4x 2000m's and 2-min full rests between.

but what I've been doing lately is 2x2500m tempo (around LT) with 2500m easier between (I have a loop that's 2500m). easier doesn't mean truly easy, more like done at marathon HR. I like this way of doing tempo runs.

I will get back to 2000's with rest to to switch up things as I like speed work the most when it's varied. not doing it always the same way... easier mentally too and feels good physically as well. I have a tempo run tonight, I'll perhaps do 7500m in one go at slightly slower pace/lower intensity than true LT. jack daniels style

Day to day is always up and down and all around. Are we not talking about observing a trend over time and how to get a system for yourself to determine a race pace? You can't rely on just one day, or just one MAF test or LT run, but many over time in relation to a starting point. I like how you include how your body feels into the mix. A runner might have achieved a certain speed over time at a certain HR, but get to the starting line feeling a bit sluggish and exhausted. Any race pace calculations get a bit inaccurate when you've over-reached or got yourself into a worse state of OT. That happened to me in my last marathon.

 

I think you may have skimmed my post too fast - I did emphasize watching for trends. everything I wrote only really makes sense in terms of watching for tendencies, analysing/comparing runs and races and just about everything, every factor that can possibly contribute.

my main point was that HR/pace on its own is too sterile, there are more factors than just HR.

as for getting to the start line rested, have we ever heard the word taper

btw that's also an interesting topic, how to taper well and for what kind of race... the best tip I've ever read so far was decrease mileage but keep intensity (or perhaps even up it a little bit here and there, nothing serious though, no real hard work)

Thanks for the congrats folks.  I feel like this was almost a bigger milestone for me than hitting a specific time target in a race.  This means my aerobic engine is continuing to improve.

npaden - great results!  Way to go.  Congrats on reaching such a great milestone.

 

I continue to await the day to post similar test results however I'm not quite there yet.  My most recent MAF test has me following behind your results with a 10:03 mm and only minor drift for subsequent miles.  Still not under the magic 10 mm mark yet, but getting closer.

 

Any thoughts on what may have contributed to your recent success?  Was it logging additional miles/ time?  Training at a sub-MAF rate?  Introducing minor speed work/ play intervals?

 

I am staying the course with strictly sub MAF runs however always question if it might be best to switch things up a little.

I'm not a good example for low HR training.  I've actually been following a couple of Hansons training plans for most of the year.  First for a marathon and now for a target 10K.  I think the key is volume and the key to volume is staying healthy.  To do that you need to keep most of your runs easy.  I haven't done any true base training in 2013 where I did nothing but easy running though.

That's not to say that I couldn't have improved faster if I had.  I just enjoy running faster sometimes, although I have to admit, speed interval sessions pretty much suck.