Low HR Training

Using MAF tests as Race Pace Indicator or Predictor (Read 3293 times)

BeeRunB


    posted: 8/2/2013 at 2:48 PM
    modified: 8/2/2013 at 2:50 PM

    Awesome, Mito.

    I'll copy and paste the table into the OP. Posted!

     

    Quote from mitochondria on 8/2/2013 at 9:34 AM:

    hello, i did a search for MAF tests > 10 min mile pace and found this helpful thread.  i've taken the suggested data points from Jimmy's OP and extrapolated them out to smaller increments in the table below:

     

    MAF Pace5k Pace5k Time10k Pace10k TimeHM PaceHM TimeM PaceM Time
    13:00 09:00 27:59 09:21 58:07 00:09:53 02:09:34 00:10:24 04:32:40
    12:56 08:58 27:53 09:19 57:55 00:09:51 02:09:07 00:10:22 04:31:44
    12:52 08:56 27:47 09:17 57:42 00:09:49 02:08:38 00:10:20 04:30:43
    12:48 08:54 27:41 09:15 57:30 00:09:47 02:08:11 00:10:18 04:29:46
    12:45 08:52 27:35 09:13 57:17 00:09:45 02:07:42 00:10:15 04:28:46
    12:41 08:50 27:28 09:11 57:03 00:09:43 02:07:11 00:10:13 04:27:40
    12:37 08:49 27:25 09:10 56:56 00:09:41 02:06:55 00:10:12 04:27:07
    12:33 08:47 27:19 09:08 56:44 00:09:39 02:06:29 00:10:10 04:26:11
    12:30 08:45 27:13 09:06 56:31 00:09:37 02:06:00 00:10:07 04:25:10
    12:26 08:43 27:07 09:04 56:19 00:09:35 02:05:33 00:10:05 04:24:13
    12:22 08:41 27:00 09:01 56:04 00:09:32 02:05:00 00:10:02 04:23:03
    12:18 08:39 26:54 08:59 55:52 00:09:30 02:04:33 00:10:00 04:22:07
    12:15 08:37 26:48 08:58 55:40 00:09:28 02:04:06 00:09:58 04:21:10
    12:11 08:35 26:42 08:55 55:27 00:09:26 02:03:37 00:09:56 04:20:09
    12:07 08:34 26:39 08:54 55:21 00:09:25 02:03:24 00:09:55 04:19:41
    12:03 08:32 26:32 08:52 55:06 00:09:23 02:02:50 00:09:52 04:18:31
    12:00 08:30 26:26 08:50 54:54 00:09:21 02:02:23 00:09:50 04:17:35
    11:56 08:28 26:20 08:48 54:41 00:09:18 02:01:54 00:09:48 04:16:34
    11:52 08:26 26:14 08:46 54:29 00:09:16 02:01:28 00:09:45 04:15:37
    11:48 08:24 26:07 08:44 54:14 00:09:14 02:00:54 00:09:43 04:14:27
    11:45 08:22 26:01 08:42 54:02 00:09:12 02:00:28 00:09:41 04:13:31
    11:41 08:20 25:55 08:40 53:49 00:09:10 01:59:59 00:09:38 04:12:30
    11:37 08:19 25:52 08:39 53:43 00:09:08 01:59:45 00:09:37 04:12:01
    11:33 08:17 25:46 08:37 53:31 00:09:06 01:59:18 00:09:35 04:11:05
    11:30 08:15 25:39 08:34 53:16 00:09:04 01:58:45 00:09:32 04:09:45
    11:26 08:13 25:33 08:32 53:04 00:09:02 01:58:18 00:09:30 04:08:58
    11:22 08:12 25:30 08:31 52:58 00:09:01 01:58:05 00:09:29 04:08:30
    11:18 08:10 25:24 08:29 52:45 00:08:59 01:57:36 00:09:27 04:07:29
    11:15 08:08 25:18 08:27 52:33 00:08:57 01:57:09 00:09:25 04:06:33
    11:11 08:06 25:11 08:25 52:18 00:08:54 01:56:36 00:09:22 04:05:23
    11:07 08:04 25:05 08:23 52:06 00:08:52 01:56:09 00:09:20 04:04:26
    11:03 08:02 24:59 08:21 51:53 00:08:50 01:55:40 00:09:17 04:03:25
    11:00 08:00 24:53 08:19 51:41 00:08:48 01:55:13 00:09:15 04:02:29
    10:56 07:58 24:47 08:17 51:28 00:08:46 01:54:44 00:09:13 04:01:28
    10:52 07:56 24:40 08:15 51:14 00:08:43 01:54:13 00:09:10 04:00:22
    10:48 07:54 24:34 08:13 51:01 00:08:41 01:53:44 00:09:08 03:59:21
    10:45 07:52 24:28 08:11 50:49 00:08:39 01:53:17 00:09:06 03:58:25
    10:41 07:50 24:22 08:09 50:36 00:08:37 01:52:48 00:09:04 03:57:24
    10:37 07:49 24:19 08:08 50:30 00:08:36 01:52:35 00:09:03 03:56:56
    10:33 07:47 24:12 08:05 50:16 00:08:33 01:52:04 00:09:00 03:55:50
    10:30 07:45 24:06 08:03 50:03 00:08:31 01:51:35 00:08:58 03:54:49
    10:26 07:43 24:00 08:01 49:51 00:08:29 01:51:08 00:08:56 03:53:53
    10:22 07:42 23:57 08:00 49:44 00:08:28 01:50:52 00:08:54 03:53:20
    10:18 07:40 23:51 07:58 49:32 00:08:26 01:50:26 00:08:52 03:52:24
    10:15 07:38 23:44 07:56 49:17 00:08:23 01:49:52 00:08:50 03:51:13
    10:11 07:36 23:38 07:54 49:05 00:08:21 01:49:25 00:08:47 03:50:17
    10:07 07:34 23:32 07:52 48:52 00:08:19 01:48:56 00:08:45 03:49:16
    10:03 07:32 23:26 07:50 48:40 00:08:17 01:48:30 00:08:43 03:48:20
    10:00 07:30 23:19 07:48 48:25 00:08:14 01:47:56 00:08:40 03:47:10

     

    [the 5k times and paces are based on the OP and McMillan provided the corresponding 10k, Half Marathon and Marathon pace/time predictors]

     

    hope this is helpful & peace out

    cmon2


      posted: 8/11/2013 at 6:43 PM
      modified: 8/11/2013 at 6:47 PM
      Quote from BeeRunB on 2/20/2008 at 8:54 AM:

      MAF....5k pace....5k time.....Marathon.....Mpace

      13:00...9:00.........27:57..........4:32:29.......10:25

      12:30...8:45.........27:11..........4:25:00.......10:07

      12:00...8:30.........26:23..........4:17:12.........9:50

      11:30...8:15.........25:37..........4:09:44.........9:32

      11:00...8:00.........24:51..........4:02:15.........9:15

      10:30..7:45..........24:04..........3:54:37.........8:58

       

      10:00..7:30..........23:18..........3:47:09...........8:41

      9:30....7:15..........22:31..........3:39:31...........8:23

      9:00....7:00..........21:45..........3:32:02...........8:06

      8:30....6:45..........20:58..........3:24:24...........7:49

      8:00....6:30..........20:12..........3:16:55...........7:31

      7:30....6:00..........18:38..........3:01:39...........6:56

      7:00....5:30..........17:05..........2:46:32...........6:22

      6:30....5:15..........16:19..........2:39:04...........6:05

      6:00....5:00..........15:32..........2:31:26...........5:47

      5:45....4:45..........14:45..........2:23:48...........5:30

      5:30....4:30..........13:59..........2:16:19...........5:12

      5:15....4:20..........13:28..........2:11:17...........5:01

      5:00....4:15..........13:12....... ..2:08:41...........4:55

       

      going to add my datapoint again...

       

      I suppose 8:40 would be 6:50-6:55 5K pace that is 21:10-21:25 5K?

       

      I currently get that pace for 180-age (no adding of 5bpm, as I didn't subtract either over the years of aging since initial MAF calculation).

       

      I can run around 21:10-21:25 5K in training as plain tempo run. have run under 21 in race without going all-out when 180-age pace was more like 9:30-9:45.

      solarisrunner


        posted: 1/22/2017 at 8:44 PM

        How accurate are these prediction charts supposed to be?  My first MAF mile on the treadmill is generally around 10:30, yet I am not able to run a sub 2 hour half at this point, but very close as my best is 2:01 on a downhill course.  I have a hard time understanding how I am going to be able to run a sub 9 min/mile for 13.1 miles if I am constantly training at 10:30+ min/miles.

         

        My first every HF was just over 2:30 and I was able to run non-stop the entire distance. However, I have since run 4 HMs and around mile 10 or 11 it ends up becoming a walk/run to the finish as I have pretty much gassed out or what I would think running faster for my ability.

         

        Can anyone provide some feedback?  I want to finally be able to run a sub 2 and eventually sub 1:50, but with constant MAF runs at two min per mile slower how can I achieve this?

        SD_BlackHills


          posted: 2/8/2017 at 1:49 PM
          Quote from solarisrunner on 1/22/2017 at 8:44 PM:

          How accurate are these prediction charts supposed to be?  My first MAF mile on the treadmill is generally around 10:30, yet I am not able to run a sub 2 hour half at this point, but very close as my best is 2:01 on a downhill course.  I have a hard time understanding how I am going to be able to run a sub 9 min/mile for 13.1 miles if I am constantly training at 10:30+ min/miles.

           

          My first every HF was just over 2:30 and I was able to run non-stop the entire distance. However, I have since run 4 HMs and around mile 10 or 11 it ends up becoming a walk/run to the finish as I have pretty much gassed out or what I would think running faster for my ability.

           

          Can anyone provide some feedback?  I want to finally be able to run a sub 2 and eventually sub 1:50, but with constant MAF runs at two min per mile slower how can I achieve this?

           

          This is a great question.  I've had the same fears before races.  Someone else may correct me if I'm wrong but here is why I think it is possible to run much faster paces in a race than during training.

           

          1. Accumulated Fatigue --  During training, you likely have a level of fatigue carried over from previous workouts.  For me personally, once I get to the end of the tapering period before a race, my legs feel spring loaded.
          2. Adrenaline -- For whatever reason, in a race, faster paces "feel" slower.  Every single race I've done so far (not many), I've had to micromanage my pace early in the race because if I don't I will go much faster than planned without even knowing it.  For example, the last marathon I did, I thought I was on about a 7:30 pace after the first few minutes (it sure felt like it), but I was really on a 6:30 pace according to my GPS so I immediately slowed down.  I could barely believe how slow 7:30 felt.  My last 5K, the same thing happened, I thought I was going about a 6:30 pace and I was really going 5:55 and had to slow down.  
          3. Better Fuel -- The last few days before a race I do a conventional "carb load" and take in carbs during the race every 45 minutes or so.  This is something I do not do during training.  As a result, I feel more energized than normal.  

          Anyway, that's my 2 cents.  Hope it helps!

          WPGZ406


            posted: 11/20/2017 at 5:51 PM

            Nov 2016 10:27 10K race pace

            15:15 MAF mile Dec 29 2017

            14:15 Jan 29 2017

            13:05 Feb 25 2017

            12:07 Mar 20 2017

            MAF race predictor 8:34  (I highly doubted this possible, even sprinting I couldn’t hit 9:00 in November,  I predicted 9:30 for myself.)

            ********

            I then did 6 weeks of speed,tempo, long run type training

            Race Results

            RAGNAR

            Leg 1 5K: 8:36 pace May 12 2017,

            Leg 2 3.7mi: 8:44 pace May 13 2017

            Leg 3 7mi: 8:55 pace May 13 2017

            5K

            8:00 pace June 16 2017

            *******

            I’m running MAF again this winter and my MAF pace

            is now about 11:30.  I’m glad I didn’t read all the

            negative about MAF before trying it, because it worked

            wonders for me.

            bencrush


              posted: 3/18/2018 at 4:40 AM

              I appreciate that "jimmyb" created the chart that expanded the times to 13:00 mile pace.  I was trying to find a way to convert the times even slower - up to about 18:00 mile pace for my wife, who is not a runner.  It does look like I can't just take 09:00 mile pace and double it to come up with the equivalent 18:00 mile pace calculations.

               

              Can someone give me the method of calculating the expanded times from 13:15 mile pace to 18:00 mile pace?

               

              Thanks!

               

              -Ben

              Allan Olesen


                posted: 3/19/2018 at 3:19 PM

                As far as I can see in Jimmy's table, the progression from 7:00 to 13:00 is quite straightforward.

                 

                So if we assume that the same progression will continue above 13:00, this is the method:

                 

                Take the competion paces for MAF pace = 13:00 minute/mile. For each minute/mile your MAF pace is slower than 13:00, do this:

                • Add 30 seconds/mile to 5 km pace .
                • Add 32 seconds/mile to 10 km pace.
                • Add 34 seconds/mile to half marathon pace.
                • Add 36 seconds/mile to marathon pace.

                So if your MAF pace is 18 minute/mile, and you want to know your 5 km pace:

                For a MAF pace of 13 minute/mile, the 5 km race pace is 9:00 minute/mile.

                Because your MAF pace is 5 minutes slower than the 13:00, add 5*30 seconds to the race pace.

                5*30 seconds is 2:30 minutes, so the 5 km pace will be 9:00 + 2:30 = 11:30 minutes/mile.

                © 2024 RunningAHEAD, LLC. All rights reserved.
                Terms of Service|Privacy|Feedback|Help