Low HR Training

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Train at MAF HR, Race at Marco HR (Read 1091 times)


Beginner all over again

    http://feelrace.com/fr.pl?th=MARCO 

     

    I am training at MAF.

    And I'm going to enter a few HMs.

    I'd eventually like to gain fitness to do a Full Marathon (couple years from now?)

     

    Anyway,

    I am training at MAF and will continue to train at MAF between the HMs I'm entering.

     

    I'd like to use the Marco HR's to pace myself during the HMs.

     

    I plan to do my usual gradual HR warm-up I do in training on Race Day.

    And then basically divide the remainder of the HM into about 3 equal segment-distances using the MARCO HR's

     

    For me, after warm-up in the beginning ...... the three HR incremental segments translate to roughly

    MAF+10

    MAF+20

    MAF+30

     

    I'm wondering whether I need to do any "practice running"at the HR's above MAF before Race Day?

    Maybe even just a few runs sporadically as Race Day approches?

    Few weeks before? 

    Few weeks before that even?

     

    If so, should I just do my Short Day at   >MAF?

     

    I'm wondering (worried) whether I will be So Sore after Running above MAF on Race Day?

    I'm wondering whether my HR will spike with the   >MAF Race-Day running that my pace will be not-much-faster anyway, by only running <MAF?

     

    I was thinking about doing one   >MAF  training run, per a week, at 2, 4, 6 and 8, weeks before Race Day.

     

    And the rest of my training all at  =MAF

     

    I have 3 more months before I get to Race-minus-8-weeks, but I got to thinking about this......

     

    Confused

     

      the MARCO stuff is for marathon, not half marathon, isn't it?

       

       

      I would not care about HR in your half marathon race, just figure out what pace you should be able to maintain and start at that pace, no faster. then hold it until the end, pick it up if you can in the last couple of miles.

       

       

      last four weeks before race you could try and get used to faster paces. race week do less running to be able to rest for the event.

       

       

      I don't understand the question about being sore. what did you mean there? if you rest well before the race, you won't be sore on race day just because you did a few runs over MAF to prepare for the race.

        I agree with cmon2. I finished my first full marathon two months ago, training by HR, but pacing myself primarily by the MARCO and the clock.

        I was sore in the evening after the race, and slightly sore for a couple of days after, but nothing major.

         

        I'm adapting MARCO's advice  to a half-marathon I'm running this weekend by taking the same basic pattern...

        From a reasonable finish time, I'm planning on doing

        miles 1 and 2 about 1.5 min/mi slower than overall pace,

        miles 3-6 about .5 min/mi slower than overall pace,

        miles 7-10 at the overall pace,

        miles 11-12 at 1 min faster,

        mile 13-end at 2 min faster.

         

        Not sure how this will work out, but I'll let you know.

         

        Good luck, and have fun!  Don't worry too much. Smile


        Beginner all over again

           

          I'm adapting MARCO's advice  to a half-marathon I'm running this weekend by taking the same basic pattern... 

           

           

          Yes, I meant "adapting" MARCO's progression of HRs in the race to the HM distance.

           

          I would like to do my HM in the Fall by HR's, not pace.

           

          I have "no idea" what pace I could ran at   >MAF  because I always run  <MAF

           

          The HM has a 6-hour time limit (for the marathon and HM) so I thought it would be a good time to try the MARCO in the HM because I won't need to be concerned about the course closing in Front Of Me.

           

          Big grin

           

            Yes, I meant "adapting" MARCO's progression of HRs in the race to the HM distance.

             

            I would like to do my HM in the Fall by HR's, not pace.

             

            I have "no idea" what pace I could ran at   >MAF  because I always run  <MAF

             

            The HM has a 6-hour time limit (for the marathon and HM) so I thought it would be a good time to try the MARCO in the HM because I won't need to be concerned about the course closing in Front Of Me.

             

            Big grin

             

            Running by HR is a fine way to run a race, especially if you haven't a clue how fast to run it.

            It looks like the Marco calculator gives you approximately spread of about 17 beats below and 11 beats (28 beats) over what

            you should averages for a marathon. You could easily use the same spread for the half marathon, but just divide

            it up into 13 increments. Letting your HR rise 2 beats per mile. Or whatever way you want to divide it up. If the calculation

            is correct for you for a marathon, then you should have a little left in your tank down the stretch in the half.

             

            You should have no problem beating a 6 hour cut off. You will probably finish in 3 hours or less.

            --Jimmy

            log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

             


            Race Less Train More

              Yes, I meant "adapting" MARCO's progression of HRs in the race to the HM distance.

               

              I would like to do my HM in the Fall by HR's, not pace.

               

              I have "no idea" what pace I could ran at   >MAF  because I always run  <MAF

               

              The HM has a 6-hour time limit (for the marathon and HM) so I thought it would be a good time to try the MARCO in the HM because I won't need to be concerned about the course closing in Front Of Me.

               

              Big grin

               Team Oregon Pace Wizard--- I used your 2010 race. You will probably be in better shape.

              <center>HalfMthn</center> <center>2:34:43</center> <center>11:48</center> <center>156</center>

              Run until the trail runs out.

              2013***1500 miles

              50 miler

               

               

              unsolicited chatter

              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                Yes, I meant "adapting" MARCO's progression of HRs in the race to the HM distance.

                 

                I would like to do my HM in the Fall by HR's, not pace.

                 

                Here's another approach to consider.  Just use the last half of the MARCO marathon plan.  Start with mile 14 and simply follow the plan from there to the finish.


                Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

                  this got me curious so I looked at the calculator and guess what. My max hr (measured) is lower than the lowest HR in the calculator! I ran my last half at just under maf until near the end. It was a very hilly half tho, even worse than the hills in the Atlanta Half. 

                  bob e v
                  2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

                  Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

                  Break the 1000 mi barrier!

                  History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

                    I'll add that HR can be useful in half marathon, but more like to set an upper limit of effort. apparently there is a "red line" HR-wise that you should not reach and step over it too early in the race. because if you do, you will not be able to hold pace for the last couple of miles. when you do step past this line, you won't feel it for a while. this is why the HRM can be useful.

                     

                    but I would not try planning out pace/HR stuff too detailed. planning every mile is just overkill in my opinion Smile I'm just happy with starting the first 500m or so a hair slower than my expected average pace, then get up to avg pace, hold that, and then the last couple miles, go at full effort, not sparing anything.

                     

                    starting so slow in first 2 miles is overkill too, you can do warmup before race.

                     

                    (I will say I didn't have a chance to actually do this neat plan in any of my HM's so far, because in the first one I was too unexperienced and in second one, things went wrong other ways. but I did this in 10K and it worked well.)

                      Well, my MARCO 1/2 marathon adaptation almost worked,but I wasn't quite able to sustain the accelerated pace in the final three miles.  I think I had too big a gap between the slowest and fastest miles (2.5 min/mi). In the next run, I'm going to try it with three parts, with the paces a bit more even; the beginning :30/mi slower than the middle, and the end :30 faster, like this.

                       

                      +0:30

                      +0:30

                      +0:30

                      +0:30

                      +0:00

                      +0:00

                      +0:00

                      +0:00

                      -0:30

                      -0:30

                      -0:30

                      -0:30

                      -0:30

                       

                      BTW, I agree with what the others have said about HR as a check against overexertion, especially in your first races.

                       

                      jon

                        Well, my MARCO 1/2 marathon adaptation almost worked,but I wasn't quite able to sustain the accelerated pace in the final three miles.  I think I had too big a gap between the slowest and fastest miles (2.5 min/mi). In the next run, I'm going to try it with three parts, with the paces a bit more even; the beginning :30/mi slower than the middle, and the end :30 faster, like this.

                         

                        +0:30

                        +0:30

                        +0:30

                        +0:30

                        +0:00

                        +0:00

                        +0:00

                        +0:00

                        -0:30

                        -0:30

                        -0:30

                        -0:30

                        -0:30

                         

                        BTW, I agree with what the others have said about HR as a check against overexertion, especially in your first races.

                         

                        jon

                         

                         

                        I would agree the pace difference in the plan was too big.

                         

                        as for HR, it would remain useful even in later races.

                          I've never tried to run a HM by speeding up so much at the end. To me it feels the wrong way round - as you tire it gets more difficult to maintain your pace, let alone speed up. My best HMs have come off more or less even pacing.

                           

                          For most of us an HM is quite a different thing from a marathon... because you don't run out of glycogen in an HM whereas many of us do in a marathon. The easier pace at the start of a marathon is partly a glycogen conservation strategy, but you shouldn't need to worry about that in an HM.

                            Thanks pr100. I was under the impression that negative splitting was desirable in half-Ms, too. But what you said about even pacing makes sense. I'm still improving so much (and so inexperienced (1 marathon, now 2 half-Ms) that I really don't know what my capabilities are. For example, in September my first hM was 3:07:35.  Last weekend, I finished in 2:34:45.

                             

                            I knew I had improved a lot, so I had a primary goal of beating 2:37, and a "dream" goal of beating 2:30. Part of my rational for the negative split was taking the first half at a pace that I knew I can sustain to the end, and in the second half, trying to go faster to see what I could do.


                            Beginner all over again

                              What My Plan is so far is to Run the HM by HR

                              not by pace or pace increments.

                              But by HR and HR increments.

                               

                              That's what I meant by MARCO.

                               

                              I thought the point of MARCO is to run at certain HR's, not at certain paces.  Confused

                               

                              The first 2 miles would be warmup to and through MAF

                               

                              Miles

                              1-2...........MAF -20 -10, -0

                              3-6...........MAF +10

                              7-9...........MAF +20

                              10-12.......MAF +30

                              13 ...........MAF +40

                               

                              I was thinking something along those lines.

                              In the first mile of a segment, on the low end

                              Middle mile of a segment, in the mid-range

                              Last mile of the segment, in the upper range

                               

                              I would just set my Garmin HR alarms for the MAF + number listed and 10 below,

                              and try to stay either the Lower, Mid, or Upper range as the 3-mile segments go by.

                               

                              That's what I was talking about anyway  Big grin

                              Keep in mind this next HM will likely be a 3:00 finish time.

                               

                                I've never tried to run a HM by speeding up so much at the end. To me it feels the wrong way round - as you tire it gets more difficult to maintain your pace, let alone speed up. My best HMs have come off more or less even pacing.

                                 

                                For most of us an HM is quite a different thing from a marathon... because you don't run out of glycogen in an HM whereas many of us do in a marathon. The easier pace at the start of a marathon is partly a glycogen conservation strategy, but you shouldn't need to worry about that in an HM.

                                 

                                 

                                you worded this much better than I. the "full effort" for the last couple of miles while you feel like dying, it may not be faster than planned avg pace, but it's fine if just able to keep the pace without slowing. Smile

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