Low HR Training

1

Progression run? (Read 694 times)

zonykel


    Not sure if this is called a progression run or something else. Instead of running a MAF test, I tried to increase my HR by 10 bpm with each successive mile. Didn't quite achieve that, as it was a bit harder for me to keep HR steady at faster speeds:

     

    1-mile warmup in 12:23


    Mile     time   HRavg      HRmax

    Mile 1: 9:00, 139 bpm, 148 bpm
    Mile 2: 8:48, 152 bpm, 157 bpm
    Mile 3: 8:07, 163 bpm, 169 bpm
    Mile 4: 7:30, 174 bpm, 178 bpm
    Mile 5: 7:03, 181 bpm, 189 bpm

    0.81 mile cooldown in 12:57

     

    Mile 1 looked good, as it would have been the same had I continued with a standard MAF test. BTW, temperature was around 60 degrees at the beginning and 55 degrees at the end.

     

    Surprised to see that I logged a higher HRmax than before (I got 189 today, but I had measured around 185 before). I got the 189 in the middle of mile 5, so it wasn't a temporary spike at the end of a run. Can't say that I've ever tested myself with the purpose of obtaining my HRmax, but I'd say 189 is pretty darn close.

     

    As a side note, I got the idea of doing a test like this from the Benson book on heart rate training. I think the test he recommends is on a treadmill and you increase speed every 2 minutes. I think the purpose of that particular test was to approximate VO2max and determine what type of shape you're in for your age and gender. This "test" I performed wasn't for that purpose. I'd say it was more "for fun".

     

    I can't say that I'd recommend repeating. It was pretty hard at the end. Maybe getting rid of the last mile would reduce the stress to the body and the risk of injury. I was breathing hard the whole mile 5 (and I hardly ever breathe hard... I just don't train or race at those speeds). 

      *nitpick time* your MAF is 9:00 but 7:00 is about or near your vo2max? mine's closer to 6min/mile and the maf formula if taking it literally (shouldn't), gives me a pace at 10min/mile or so.... *envy* lol

      (well ok it may be a bit better than 10 now but I didn't test in a while. definitely not better than 9: xx.)

       

       

      anyway, I think a progression run doesn't involve running all-out for such a long part of it. it's more like, a few miles at an easy pace then something harder but usually not faster than LT pace, for a few miles, I believe. then cooldown..

       

       

      this topic reminds me, a friend of mine swears a kind of progression run works very well for him for endurance training and for marathon training. basically, run a mile or so at a pretty low HR. for you with 189 HRmax that would be something like around 115bpm. then run another mile at 125 then another at 135, 145, 155 and then 165 (though maybe only up to 160 or so... basically you subtract 10 from your avg HR for a 10k or half marathon race and that's the highest zone). then end of run. can't remember if it was a 10bpm increase though, but something similar. maybe less than 10bpm and a bit more miles overall.. runs of 1 hour or so. he'd do this run a few times a week and a long run once a week where it's longer than a mile for each zone.


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        *nitpick time* your MAF is 9:00 but 7:00 is about or near your vo2max? mine's closer to 6min/mile and the maf formula if taking it literally (shouldn't), gives me a pace at 10min/mile or so.... *envy* lol

        (well ok it may be a bit better than 10 now but I didn't test in a while. definitely not better than 9: xx.)

         

         

        anyway, I think a progression run doesn't involve running all-out for such a long part of it. it's more like, a few miles at an easy pace then something harder but usually not faster than LT pace, for a few miles, I believe. then cooldown..

         

         

        this topic reminds me, a friend of mine swears a kind of progression run works very well for him for endurance training and for marathon training. basically, run a mile or so at a pretty low HR. for you with 189 HRmax that would be something like around 115bpm. then run another mile at 125 then another at 135, 145, 155 and then 165 (though maybe only up to 160 or so... basically you subtract 10 from your avg HR for a 10k or half marathon race and that's the highest zone). then end of run. can't remember if it was a 10bpm increase though, but something similar. maybe less than 10bpm and a bit more miles overall.. runs of 1 hour or so. he'd do this run a few times a week and a long run once a week where it's longer than a mile for each zone.

         I believe Jimmy does progression runs the same way.

        Run until the trail runs out.

        2013***1500 miles

        50 miler

         

         

        unsolicited chatter

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        zonykel


          *nitpick time* your MAF is 9:00 but 7:00 is about or near your vo2max? mine's closer to 6min/mile and the maf formula if taking it literally (shouldn't), gives me a pace at 10min/mile or so.... *envy* lol

          (well ok it may be a bit better than 10 now but I didn't test in a while. definitely not better than 9: xx.)

           

          If you take into account that the last mile had an average HR of 181 BPM, then that wouldn't be my speed at VO2max. I've never done a 1-mile time trial, but from other runs (one was 1.4 miles in 9:25, and another one was 1550 meters in 6:00, for example), I think my speed at VO2max is probably around 6:30 or 6:40 per mile.

           

          And my MAF first mile is not typically 9:00... this one just happened to be the fastest. My most recent one was around 10:15, IIRC.

            Not sure if this is called a progression run or something else. Instead of running a MAF test, I tried to increase my HR by 10 bpm with each successive mile. Didn't quite achieve that, as it was a bit harder for me to keep HR steady at faster speeds:

             

            1-mile warmup in 12:23


            Mile     time   HRavg      HRmax

            Mile 1: 9:00, 139 bpm, 148 bpm
            Mile 2: 8:48, 152 bpm, 157 bpm
            Mile 3: 8:07, 163 bpm, 169 bpm
            Mile 4: 7:30, 174 bpm, 178 bpm
            Mile 5: 7:03, 181 bpm, 189 bpm

            0.81 mile cooldown in 12:57

             

            Mile 1 looked good, as it would have been the same had I continued with a standard MAF test. BTW, temperature was around 60 degrees at the beginning and 55 degrees at the end.

             

            Surprised to see that I logged a higher HRmax than before (I got 189 today, but I had measured around 185 before). I got the 189 in the middle of mile 5, so it wasn't a temporary spike at the end of a run. Can't say that I've ever tested myself with the purpose of obtaining my HRmax, but I'd say 189 is pretty darn close.

             

            As a side note, I got the idea of doing a test like this from the Benson book on heart rate training. I think the test he recommends is on a treadmill and you increase speed every 2 minutes. I think the purpose of that particular test was to approximate VO2max and determine what type of shape you're in for your age and gender. This "test" I performed wasn't for that purpose. I'd say it was more "for fun".

             

            I can't say that I'd recommend repeating. It was pretty hard at the end. Maybe getting rid of the last mile would reduce the stress to the body and the risk of injury. I was breathing hard the whole mile 5 (and I hardly ever breathe hard... I just don't train or race at those speeds). 

             

             

            Not sure how you measured your MHR when you got 185, but the way you did it this time is an effective way. You need to be really warmed-up to get near MHR. I've always got my highest readings sprinting that last quarter mile or so at the end of a race. It still could be a few beats higher, but you are as close as you will get and 189 is good enough for training purposes (if there are any zones, intervals or tempo runs that you base off a % of MHR---Dr. Phil recommends 90% for speedwork). A few beats isn't going to make much of a difference.

             

            That run sounded like fun actually.

             

            --Jimmy

            log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

             

              *nitpick time* your MAF is 9:00 but 7:00 is about or near your vo2max? mine's closer to 6min/mile and the maf formula if taking it literally (shouldn't), gives me a pace at 10min/mile or so.... *envy* lol

              (well ok it may be a bit better than 10 now but I didn't test in a while. definitely not better than 9: xx.)

               

               

              anyway, I think a progression run doesn't involve running all-out for such a long part of it. it's more like, a few miles at an easy pace then something harder but usually not faster than LT pace, for a few miles, I believe. then cooldown..

               

               

              this topic reminds me, a friend of mine swears a kind of progression run works very well for him for endurance training and for marathon training. basically, run a mile or so at a pretty low HR. for you with 189 HRmax that would be something like around 115bpm. then run another mile at 125 then another at 135, 145, 155 and then 165 (though maybe only up to 160 or so... basically you subtract 10 from your avg HR for a 10k or half marathon race and that's the highest zone). then end of run. can't remember if it was a 10bpm increase though, but something similar. maybe less than 10bpm and a bit more miles overall.. runs of 1 hour or so. he'd do this run a few times a week and a long run once a week where it's longer than a mile for each zone.

               

              Always remember, C, that you exist in an alternate heart rate universe---one where all known physical laws don't apply. Cool

               

              Progression runs can be done any way you want.  Doing long runs like this (ending up at 5k speed) can be very effective mental training (as well as some anaerobic work).

               

              Here's a good page on these runs:

               

              http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/articlePages/article/6

               

              --Jimmy

              log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

               

                If you take into account that the last mile had an average HR of 181 BPM, then that wouldn't be my speed at VO2max. I've never done a 1-mile time trial, but from other runs (one was 1.4 miles in 9:25, and another one was 1550 meters in 6:00, for example), I think my speed at VO2max is probably around 6:30 or 6:40 per mile.

                 

                And my MAF first mile is not typically 9:00... this one just happened to be the fastest. My most recent one was around 10:15, IIRC.

                 

                 

                okay we don't have that much of a difference then in terms of top speeds.

                 

                also, that avg of 181 actually sounds like it's in the ball park... 96% of your max. the tests I did always had me at a lower HR than 96% of max if I consider the highest HR I've ever seen. if I only consider the HR at the end of the test itself then 96% is about what I had myself. anywhere between 95-97%.

                 

                hope that 10:15 was just anomaly though Smile

                 

                 

                 

                 

                Always remember, C, that you exist in an alternate heart rate universe---one where all known physical laws don't apply. Cool

                 

                 

                 

                hehee, right. Smile