Low HR Training

1

Significantly slower in the heat? (Read 55 times)

BearODactyl


    Just did my Monthly MAF test. I'm about 30 seconds behind last months test (from 13:24-3:50)  . I live in Florida. Does anyone else see significant impact to their times in the heat? If you don't think that's it, I'll just have to look at what else it could be....I can run WAY under my MAF pace and it's one of the most painful things I've done running this slow. Don't want to spend months backtracking when I'm running this slow.


    Bad Ass

      Heat is one thing that affects HR, so yes.  I usually run 30 sec off per mile with the same HR in 80F.  The more humid it is, the slower I get at the same HR.  I wouldn't worry if there was a substantial change in weather.

      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

      Next:  RnR Country Music Half Marathon

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      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

        Like Damaris said. Here's a handy chart that helps. I find it to be in the ballpark for this amateur. Got it from this URL on Jeff Galloway's site a long time ago. Below 55° would be 0%:

         

        TEMP....................Slowing

        55-60 degrees - 1%
        60-65 degrees - 3%
        65-70 degrees - 5%
        70-75 degrees - 7%
        75-80 degrees - 12%
        80-85 degrees - 20%

         

        You can acclimate to heat. After the initial slowing due to heat, you should start to improve on that summer speed at MAF. For some people, the heat sends them in a continuous nose dive. Dr. Phil recommends cutting volume if this happens.

         

        --JimmyCool

        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

         

          Jimmy's post holds roughly more-or-less true for me, too.  In the summer, I try to "force" acclimation by running in the hottest part of the day, though, especially as I have done and plan on summer ultras.

           

          Training in the heat is the poor man's altitude training.  In the summer, you may seem to get slower.  Seem is the key word.  When the temperatures drop again, you will find yourself much, much faster than you were before summer started.

           

          Make sure to record the temperature for your runs, but otherwise don't sweat it.

           

          (I am truly sorry for that last pun.)

          "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
          Emil Zatopek


          Bad Ass

            True.  But there is no acclimating to humidity (dewpoint) so if it's consistently high, it will slow you down nonetheless.

             

            Like Damaris said. Here's a handy chart that helps. I find it to be in the ballpark for this amateur. Got it from this URL on Jeff Galloway's site a long time ago. Below 55° would be 0%:

             

            TEMP....................Slowing

            55-60 degrees - 1%
            60-65 degrees - 3%
            65-70 degrees - 5%
            70-75 degrees - 7%
            75-80 degrees - 12%
            80-85 degrees - 20%

             

            You can acclimate to heat. After the initial slowing due to heat, you should start to improve on that summer speed at MAF. For some people, the heat sends them in a continuous nose dive. Dr. Phil recommends cutting volume if this happens.

             

            --JimmyCool

            Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

            Next:  RnR Country Music Half Marathon

            Blog

            "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

            BearODactyl


              Thanks Damaris and Jimmy.

               

              I've checked the temps and it was ~62 when I did the first one, and it was ~ 80 today. If my math is correct that should equate to ~9% difference. That would be 72 seconds. Putting me at ~12:48 temperature adjusted MAF pace. I'd really like to actually have run at that pace, but I can talk myself into being "ok" with it.

               

              Now, I just need to figure out the right amount of food to eat so I don't smell like ammonia after a long MAF run.......=)

              BearODactyl


                Thanks gilbert. I do the same thing when possible for my non MAF runs for exactly that reason. I just don't have enough experience with LHRT to be sure. This helped, thanks everyone!


                Wandering Wally

                  Thanks!  The chart is a handy reference.  The humidity definitely affects me more severely than just heat.

                  Run!  Just Run!

                   

                  Trail Runner Nation Podcast

                    Like Damaris said. Here's a handy chart that helps. I find it to be in the ballpark for this amateur. Got it from this URL on Jeff Galloway's site a long time ago. Below 55° would be 0%:

                     

                    TEMP....................Slowing

                    55-60 degrees - 1%
                    60-65 degrees - 3%
                    65-70 degrees - 5%
                    70-75 degrees - 7%
                    75-80 degrees - 12%
                    80-85 degrees - 20%

                     

                     

                    nice chart, though not quite true for me Smile at 80-85 I definitely don't slow 20%. I do slow down some but nowhere near that. that's assuming the run is in the evening or on a cloudy day - if I run without water then I do slow a LOT if it's sunny, much less slowing though if I can splash water on myself frequently.

                     

                    it also depends on pace/HR range. at high HR/fast pace, I feel the heat more, I slow significantly more than I would in some LHR run...and will soon overheat without water. while in a LHR run I may not need water much at the same temperature etc.

                     

                    also I think I'm slower when it's very cold. at around 20F and below I slow some. below 10F, it's significant slowing. as bad as on a hot summer day Smile air just doesn't flow into my lungs so easily anymore. (I read somewhere that your blood can take up less oxygen in very cold weather - makes sense..)

                      You must dissipate heat well, C.

                       

                      Galloway's chart is for your average amateur runner. The closer you get to being elite, the less it applies. Part of being an elite is having very little body fat, which is a big factor in dissipating heat. It's important to know what you're own slowing rates are, especially if you don't run by heart rate (in training or races), otherwise you can end up doing all your summer miles near summer marathon pace.  I normally don't race by HR, but if I ever find that the temps for a marathon are going to be sky high, I'll be popping on that HRM and keeping myself in check. It's a great way to keep yourself at what your race pace really is in such temps.

                       

                      A quick, very unscientific study of the 2011-2012 Boston Marathons winning and average times:

                       

                      2011  55°F ... W 2:22:36 … M 2:03:02 ….Average 3:49:54
                      2012  87°F  ... W 2:31:36 … M 2:12:40 … Average 4:18:27

                       

                      Woman slowed by 6.47%, Men by 7.83%, and the field by 12.42%

                       

                      Take out the sub-2:50 finishers from the mix, and the average would creep a lot closer to 20%.

                       

                      When I lived in the northeast, I use to slow horribly when the the temps got up over 70°. When I moved south, it really kicked my butt, and still does. I acclimate some, but never enough to cover the loss of speed at the same HR. I have an Irish body and should be running in the British Isles!

                       

                      Keep going, C! Cool

                      log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

                       


                      Bad Ass

                        It is a formula and sometimes there is a difference.  My coach wants me to run 30sec per mile slower in 90F and I can barely do 40sec and maintain my normal HR.  It's OK.  It's all about effort, so follow MAF.

                         

                        Thanks Damaris and Jimmy.

                         

                        I've checked the temps and it was ~62 when I did the first one, and it was ~ 80 today. If my math is correct that should equate to ~9% difference. That would be 72 seconds. Putting me at ~12:48 temperature adjusted MAF pace. I'd really like to actually have run at that pace, but I can talk myself into being "ok" with it.

                         

                        Now, I just need to figure out the right amount of food to eat so I don't smell like ammonia after a long MAF run.......=)

                        Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                        Next:  RnR Country Music Half Marathon

                        Blog

                        "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

                          You must dissipate heat well, C.

                           

                          I dissipate that heat well only as long as the sun doesn't come out of the clouds Smile then I need to supplement my body's cooling abilities with lots of water, splashing it on my head etc.

                           

                          oh and interesting study, that. Smile thanks for the data.

                           

                          btw, the british isles are nice. Cool