Marathon Training and Discussions

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Cut-Back (Read 513 times)

JellyFish


    My marathon schedule has cut-backs on long runs but total mileage barely changes. I was considering making cut-back weeks actually cut-back weeks in total mileage not just long runs. What are your thoughts on that? (my plan is HH Int. 2)


    Blaine Moore (MM#2867)

      I haven't used the Higdon plans, but for myself I generally cut back on the long run and leave the rest of the week alone unless life gets in the way and I need to eliminate different workouts (which happens probably 1/3 of the time.) I've been doing a lot of slower running for my general easy pace, though, so I haven't felt the need to cut back as much as I used to.

      Run to Win
      24 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)



      JellyFish


        It seems to be that the plan uses long run cut-backs to increase mid-weeks runs. I guess I am concerned about the cut-back week really just being a rearrangement of the mileage as opposed to a week of less mileage. Is there any reason for my concern? Do you think with it being my first marathon it might be better to modify the plan so that cut-back are really that?


        Blaine Moore (MM#2867)

          Is there any reason for my concern? Do you think with it being my first marathon it might be better to modify the plan so that cut-back are really that?
          My general feeling is that if I am going to use a plan, then I'd follow it unless I found a problem with it. There is nothing wrong with anticipating problems and being proactive about changing the plan, just be aware that if you make changes then you aren't following the original plan and thus you can't really expect the same results. That may be a good thing (not getting injured) but then again it may not be (not being in as good of shape). Just a little food for thought.

          Run to Win
          24 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)




          Needs more cowbell!

            Shan, I built my plan around what I saw in about a half-dozen plans, including Higdon, Pfitz, Glover, and a plan in an issue of Her Sports + Fitness magazine. I'm doing my cutbacks at around 75% of mileage every 3rd week. I can always run more than that if I feel up to it on a given cut-back week, but I've run into injuries in the past when I go too many weeks of progression in mileage without some "easy" weeks thrown in to recover some. I figure when I've been doing this for more than 2.5 years that I can be a bit more aggressive, but my primary goal right now is to simply make it to the starting line in one piece and finish still without any major malfunction (or any vows to never again run another marathon).

            Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

            '14 Goals:

            • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


            Kill

              My marathon schedule has cut-backs on long runs but total mileage barely changes. I was considering making cut-back weeks actually cut-back weeks in total mileage not just long runs. What are your thoughts on that? (my plan is HH Int. 2)
              So IIRC the HH Int 2 plan peaks at about 55 mpw. This is more in one week than you normally run in one month. Are you ready for that? Are you sure you wouldn't be better served with the Higdon Novice plan or maybe HH Int 1? In my mind, you would do better with a plan that is more achievable from the start and then you can add a run here and there or add a mile to certain runs.

              Passion is a rather frightening thing because if you have passion you don't know where it will take you.

               

              When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

              JellyFish


                Bonkin - yeah I've thought about all this and still think about it on a regular basis. My start date is the 21st so there is a good chance I will change my mind. I have been thinking about changing down to the Int 1. Because you are right my base probably isn't big enough for the int 2. I guess my concern is that I am really good at adjusting back if I need to but not adjusting forward. Does that make sense? But I guess then I always risk running into discouragement...


                Blaine Moore (MM#2867)

                  It's better to be a bit undertrained than at all overtrained. Just sayin'...

                  Run to Win
                  24 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)




                  HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                    I forgot about cut-back weeks, and when I just decided to start training for an Oct marathon, remembered them. I looked back at my log and was happy to discover that life getting in way had given me cutbacks twice in the last 7 or 8 weeks anyway, so that was fortuitous. When I double-check it now, I've never managed more than 4 weeks of 40mpw, for whatever reason. Now I've started trying an auto-generated runnersworld schedule -- so obviously it was just computed by a formula, so not necessarily reliable. But I've gone about 4 weeks in a row at 40 mpw, and I went high last week, b/c -- primarily b/c the plan calls for Sun and Fri off, but I ran social runs both days. Anyway, the plan doesn't cut back until the fourth week, so I'm seriously considering cutting back this week instead and just fiddling about with it to try to figure how to sync up.

                    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                    Kill

                      I guess my concern is that I am really good at adjusting back if I need to but not adjusting forward. Does that make sense? But I guess then I always risk running into discouragement...
                      I hear you. I ran my first marathon with a plan that was way over my head. While I survived somehow - and missed quite a few workouts, I gotta say I felt overwhelmed - all the time. If I could do it over again, I would have picked a plan more suited to my current abilities. To me a lot of distance training is mental. When you "only" run 8 when the plan says 10, you lose out on some of that "YEAH!" feeling from knocking out a good workout. That "YEAH" feeling is part of what lets you knock out the next one with a good mental attitude instead of slogging through.

                      Passion is a rather frightening thing because if you have passion you don't know where it will take you.

                       

                      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        My first mara was last winter, and I didn't have the base to jump into any of the mara training plans, so I made my own -- long runs on weekend, increasing mileage, tried to cut back some weeks. Worked out well for me -- well, I ran it slow, but I was happy -- I ran a 22 mile warmup to a 4 mile race Smile Finishing strong really is fun.

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                        JellyFish


                          When you "only" run 8 when the plan says 10, you lose out on some of that "YEAH!" feeling from knocking out a good workout. That "YEAH" feeling is part of what lets you knock out the next one with a good mental attitude instead of slogging through.
                          hmm I've never looked at it like that before, but I wonder if that's where some of my mental issues come from because you are right when I don't make it my next one seems daunting... hmm... Amores - I contemplated making my own plan. ok so I relooked at the beginner and int. plans for him. I think I went for int. based on 2 things: 1) I'd like to have 5 days of distance instead of 4. I run everyday and the off days in the schedule would be 1-2 mile recovery runs. But instead of 3 of those a week i'd like only 2. 2) I'd like to do at least 2-20 mile runs. Ok so I took the beginner 2. and added an extra day of running. With all the runs progressing from 3-6 miles. I adjusted the long runs to start at 10mi because that's what I will be doing the next two weeks. And then I took the 19 and bumped it to 20 to give me 2-20 milers. And with adding in my recovery miles it would make my peak 45. Does a peak of 45 sound more reasonable? When I compare what I had and what I have now it looks more realistic to my current ability. (I wish we had a graphing feature so I would show you.) Man I'm really glad I asked about this because I was nervous that the schedule would overwhelm me!


                          Needs more cowbell!

                            There are several folks here who did marathons on 45 mile peak weeks and had great experiences. You won't be a speed demon, but you are far more likely to make it to the start on a conservative plan. I've even had thoughts of scaling my own plan back a bit, if needed. Better to have a slow, "enjoyable" first marathon than to struggle through training and risk injury before even making it to the start. Smile

                            Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

                            '14 Goals:

                            • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                            JellyFish


                              Yeah. Especially since i'm currently only in the low 20's - it might be smarter to go lowers as was mentioned earlier. I just worry about it being enough.


                              Blaine Moore (MM#2867)

                                There are several folks here who did marathons on 45 mile peak weeks and had great experiences. You won't be a speed demon, but you are far more likely to make it to the start on a conservative plan.
                                I ran my first 3 or 4 BQs and sub-3 hour races off of 40-45 miles per week at peak. I'm finding the races much easier with higher mileage now, though. (And I was only a few years removed from base training in the 85-120 miles per week zone, which probably made somewhat of a difference.)

                                Run to Win
                                24 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)



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