RA Coaching Forum

Bonkin's Marathon Training (Read 1078 times)

jEfFgObLuE


I've got a fever...

    Nice job Bonk. Looks like that's a PR for you! Big grin

    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      Thanks, Jeff. July is all about "free" PRs since they are all new distances. 25k and 15k coming up next. Big grin

      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

      jEfFgObLuE


      I've got a fever...

        Thanks, Jeff. July is all about "free" PRs since they are all new distances. 25k and 15k coming up next. Big grin
        Maybe you should sandbag those races so that you can easily set "new" PR's at those distances. Clowning around

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

          Training Week 4 Summary I was scheduled to do the following: TUE: 8mi w/10x100m Strides - Check WED: 5mi Recovery - Check THU: 10mi Easy - Check SAT: 4mi Recovery - Ran a 5k + WU/CD - Check SUN: 15mi Medium Long - Check With the exception of today's run, the rest of this week's run went fine. Today's run sucked in the last third - gory details are in the log entry. I mostly blamed energy level - but the more I think about it, the more impact running yesterday's 5k hard probably had on me than I thought. I'm already planning on running next week's 25k at near training pace so that one shouldn't be a problem. The week after next I'm running a 15k with friends from work, so I will need to slow it down to support my long run or plan on a shorter Sunday run. I ran 42.8 miles for the week versus the 42 that were planned.

          When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?


          Forever Learning

            Bonkin, Have you been taking gels or the like for your runs over 10 miles? 15 miles is still "medium-long" for Pfitz but in this heat they are nothing to be messed with. As I am sure you remember from reading Daniels - he suggests a limit of 2h30min for long runs. Most of what I have read from Lydiard suggests a limit of 3hours for the long run. I will be in your situation and to get the miles in I will be breaking these "rules" on time limits. I think you might want to try drinking more energy drink during the run so you don't bonk around 1:30 into the run. For my slow 13 miler this weekend I popped a gel around 7.5 miles (85 minutes). My issues was not enough hydration...
              Yes, I've sometimes used gels and normally will stop at the store 2/3 through to pick up some gatorade, etc. I'm with you on breaking the "rules" on time limits. IIRC, Pfitz also suggests some practice getting glycogen depleted. So I try to avoid anything but water on at least some of the medium-long runs.

              When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?


              Forever Learning

                Bonkin, I do most of my runs in the early AM - so no carbs 3 hours prior to try and teach the body to be more efficient. I will typically eat something before my long run though - a yogurt or a few toaster waffles... In this heat, I am OK with just water up to about 6/7 miles (at my low HR pace of ~11:30 = 75-85 minutes). I will use GU2O (low sugar) for my 8+ milers during the week more for electrolytes than carbs - though the carbs definitely have helped me. For my longer runs when I do loops instead of an out and back (i.e., carrying a camelbak) I do just water and then take a e-Gel around 7/8 miles. That has worked OK.
                  Training Week 5 Summary I was scheduled to do the following: TUE: 9mi w/4m @ Tempo - Check WED: 5mi Recovery - Check THU: 10mi Easy - Bailed at 6m - No Check SAT: 5mi Recovery - Skipped it - No Check SUN: 17mi Long - Ran 25k race + 2m WU/CD - Check So a mile into last week's 15 mile run, I tripped and smashed/scraped my left knee on the sidewalk. A little bloody, but finished the remaining 14 miles. At the end of Wednesday's 6 miler, I noticed my right hip was a little sore and my shins were a little sore. Thursday's run started with worry about my hip and shins - they eased up as the run went on but I just felt tight by 5 miles - so I headed home for a total of 6 instead of getting in the scheduled 10 miles. This is the first run since starting training that I've had to cut short. I spent the next couple days (after reading about Derek) wondering whether I was over-training too or just feeling the effects of the smashed up knee. So I decided to skip Saturday's run too - to bring down the mileage for the week. Was starting to question whether I was going to run El Scorcho (25k) on Saturday night. Through the race I chatted a bit with modal and tschepsit about whether I was going to back off of the Pfitz plan or just ease up for a week and see. I ran the first 7 miles of the 25k at 10+ pace and then turned it into a progression run. I finished strong and felt great afterwards as well as waking up this morning. My hip doesn't hurt anymore, either. Next week is a recovery week on my Pfitz plan, so I will continue through next week and see how I feel. If my shins recover - I'll stay with this plan - otherwise I've been re-reading Higdon's intermediate plans (based on trishie's posts) and will use Int I or Int II as a backup plan. Not only will this reduce the training volume, but Higdon's Intermediate plans have little to no speedwork compared to the Pfitz plan. I ran 38.7 miles versus the 46 miles that were planned.

                  When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                  btb1490


                    Hi Mike, I read through your log, and can't tell you how impressed I am with how far you have come in such a relatively short period of time. Congratulations on kicking the smoking habit, that is a tough demon to overcome. I was glad to read that you decided to cut back on the Pfitz plan by eliminating the easy/recovery runs instead of cutting back on the midweek medium long runs. I just wanted to second the opinion that those runs are important. Sorry to hear about your fall. Glad to hear the hip is ok, it probaby got tweaked a bit when you tripped. We don't bend like we used to! I also like your flexible attitude as far as switching plans, and backing off when necessary. The best plans are no good if you can't make it to the starting line healthy. Keep up the great work!
                      Thanks, Bob! I appreciate the kind words and the sage advice! It feels great to be up off the couch and training for my first marathon - hopefully it will be the first of many.

                      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                        Training Week 6 Summary This week was a planned recovery week and ends what Pfitz calls Mesocycle 1 - Endurance. Good bye #1 you were fun and yes while I learned a lot about endurance from you - I still know that I have much more to learn. Big grin Hello to #2 - Lactate Threshold + Endurance. I was scheduled to do the following: TUE: 8mi w/8X100m Strides - Check WED: 5mi Recovery - Check THU: 8mi Easy - Check SAT: 4mi Recovery - Check SUN: 12mi Medium Long - Check The first three runs were good - I added about a mile to each of them to try to reduce mileage on the weekend. I then ran a 15k race + WU/CD on Saturday so I skipped the long run on Sunday and instead went to the middle school track not far from home. I use mile time trials periodically to evaluate my fitness and establish pace targets. My recent races have been close to equivalent with my old 4/24 mile PR of 7:43. On 5/31, I ran a new mile PR of 7:11 and over the course of several weeks, adapted my easy and tempo paces to the new ones prescribed by McMillian. But my race times are still what the old PR would predict. I then thought that maybe the 7:11 was a fluke or more downhill then I originally thought. Running a mile on a track should clear that up one way or the other. After a half mile warmup, I then ran a 6:30 mile. This, to me, was shocking - I had sort of expected it to fall. This proves to me that mileage builds speed. I've read it repeatedly from folks around here, but it's nice to see it happen to you. Well, 4 sessions of strides and 2 tempo runs helped a lot too, but the vast majority of the miles were at an easy pace. I'm wondering if I should continue to advance my pace according to McMilllians again. It's worked well for me so far, but I would welcome any advice. In other news, I saw a new high for Max HR of 199 @ the 15k race. I ran 36.8 miles versus the 37 miles that were planned. I'm certain that running a 15k race and a mile time trial during a "recovery" week probably wasn't the most intelligent thing to do, but there ya go.

                        When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                        btb1490


                          Mike, you sure did blow away your previous mile PR time! Yep, mileage does build speed, but more to the point of your goal... mileage builds MARATHON speed. Your times for other distances will usually improve also as a side effect, as you demonstrated with your mile time. Granted, you could probaby bring down that mile PR even further by incorporating shorter, harder intervals into your program, but those probably wouldn't help your marathon time too much, and I think that is your real goal here. So keep putting in those miles! And I agree that these mini time trials are a good way of evaluating your performance so that you can adjust your training paces accordingly, but perhaps you could try a longer distance instead of a mile. That may be a better gauge of how your MARATHON training is coming along. I'm not sure a one mile time trial is the best indicator of that. Overall, you're doing great. Keep up the great work.


                          Forever Learning

                            Mike, 6:30 is moving - congrats. I too do the same 1 mile TT about every 6/8 weeks. Hoping to run around 6:30 for my next one. Last one was 6:47 about a month ago. Based on advice I received, wouldn't use the 1 mile to set paces but a 5-K or ideally a 10-K (especially for the goal pace runs to come).
                              Thanks Bob and Jeff! Bob - I hear you on the marathon training vs. the mile. I will run something longer soon to get a better gauge. Jeff - Do you mean you wouldn't use the mile time to set training paces? or just not use the mile time to set marathon pace? I've been thinking about my race times not correlating with my current fitness level (as measured by my previous mile time). All of my recent races have been during marathon training with no taper. So it makes sense that they are not stellar performances. I think I will rearrange my training a little bit (when I get closer to the marathon) to allow for a small taper before one of my tune up races and use the results from that to set my marathon goal pace.

                              When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                              btb1490


                                Mr. Bonkin, you've been on vacation long enough! Wink Time to get back to posting! Hope you are getting some good runs in while you're away! Bring us up to date please!