Yasso 800s and Boston Qualifier (Read 97 times)

Mr MattM


    Maybe I didn't give it enough time, but when I tried to increase from 70 mpw to 90 mpw, it left me tired all the time. After a few months of that I dropped back to 70 mpw along with my steady diet of speed work. I should note that I've always been better at shorter distances, e.g. 800m to 10K.


    I would suspect you may have been running too hard.  That's what's most difficult for naturally faster runners.  They can't seem to slow down enough to support the higher mileage volume.


    I like the concept of Training Load.  There's a balancing act to get to right training load to support improvement without tearing things down.  When got into high mileage training, pace did not matter.  I'd run at 12mm pace sometimes just to get the miles in.  Yes, even then there was fatigue, but running though the fatigue lead to less fatigue and way more stamina.  It's amazing how bodies adapt to the pressures we apply.  It is a tightrope, though.  Especially for you naturally faster runners!

    be curious; not judgmental

    Half Crazy K 2.0

      I'll throw this out and hide because I know it's controversial take. I've been loosely following Hudson's plans for my last several races. In his book, he has a very bief section for master's runners. Something he mentions is getting the most bang for your buck on running workouts and doing 3 or maybe 4 runs per week, plus  low impact cardio for cross training and definitely strength training. The plan in the book for master's marathon is 20 week and 3 runs per week, run has some form of quality in it.


      Not really relevant for anyone in this discussion, but the bang for buck is mentioned a lot in the reading I've done about dealing with some of the BS that comes with being a female on the wrong side of 40.


      Oh, I will also add that from 2014 to 2015, I went from a less than 1000 year runner to 1500-ish. I did not get faster. At all. So more miles does not automatically mean faster.


        So more miles does not automatically mean faster.


        This is very true and I don't think it's all that controversial. "Run more" is usually the answer for most people aiming at the marathon, especially if they've never run high mileage. But the right amount is different for everyone and goals are diffferent for everyone.


        For me, running goals always had to fit into the margins of a pretty busy life with a bunch of responsibilities. I probably could have been significantly faster if I had run a hundred miles a week, but it would have been at the expense of something else that deemed more important (jobs, kids, etc.)


        There's only so much time and only so much adaptive energy to go around.

        Runners run

        Mr MattM

          ^^^  Truth ^^^

          be curious; not judgmental

            I haven't read Brad's book, but the fewer workouts makes sense. I've found that recovery takes a lot longer as you age (beyond 50; under that isn't really very old for runners). So, what used to be a single rest day after a hard workout might be 2 or 1.5, or maybe 3. Part of that recovery being short, very slow pace runs, or long walks. I also think a 7-day cycle is bunk. We just do that because it jibes with the arbitrary work week and calendar. You might be better on a 10 or 12 day cycle, with your one long run and one tempo run in there. It's a trial and error process. I'm not on any plan, and just run whatever I feel like that day. I'm also not training for any particular race, but have vague ideas of a 100k or 100M sometime in the Fall, and track season from May-July. And maybe 5k through 10M road races whenever just to rack up more All American standards (bottom of my age group for 2023!)

            60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying


            Runs in the rain

              This topic has gotten more Reponses than I expected! Lots of information to process! I do try to respond to all posts, and I already have modified my goals, I think it will be easier just to concentrate on increasing my weekly millage for now. This week I slightly improved on the week before with 25 miles so far. I did 8 milers on Friday and Saturday! Since I've set my weeks from Mondays to Sundays, I can get a little above 25 miles with a short, recovery jog today! I want to get to 35 to 40 mile weeks over the winter and go beyond that come spring and summer! When I've had several 45 or more mile weeks I think I'll be ready to add speedwork. Another thing I'm thinking, I found Heart Rate training too complicated, hard to definitively establish your Max, hard to constantly monitor when running and inaccurate readings from cadence lock. However, I think I should make more use of HR to get an idea of my training zones, am I going too slow or too fast? I usually don't use the feature, but I can click on my Garmin during a run to display different sets of data, including one of my HR.


              mikeymike - You are correct there was no cutoff for the 2023 Boston Marathon! I guess taking those 10 minutes off the qualifying times thinned the field. Progression runs are a good idea! You are right that we have limited time and energy, sometimes goals other than running take priority!


              Mr MattM - Every individual responds different to a given training plan. From past experience I know that running a lot of miles each week for several months will lead to faster times, but I've never had a 90 mile week! Now that I'm retired, I may have more time to run! The Training Load concept is something to consider. Usually if I feel sore after a workout I consider that a good workout. The body does adapt to stress if given recovery time as well.


              wcrunner - As people here have said, different people respond differently to training plans. Perhaps they have different percentages of fast and slow twitch muscles, or a higher VO2. Maybe that is why you do better at shorter races and why 90 mile weeks did not work for you. However, Mr MattM's comment might be correct, maybe you ran the long runs too fast!


              Half Crazy K 2.0 - I do own Hudson's book "Running Faster", I'll have to look through it again to see what it says. There are advocates of running less miles, but at a higher intensity, which I assume is what's meant by "more bang for the buck." I think the evidence is for the 80/20 plan, where just 20% is high intensity workouts.


              Surly Bill - Recovery and progress are slower for the older runner! I'm not sure of Mr MattM's age when he did the 90 mile weeks but have heard that people who are over 55 should run only every other day. I'm over 70 but find I'm happy with just two rest days. If I'm just doing short runs (<6 miles) I find I can run every day if I want. A very hard workout might require the next two days off. Like you, I don't have a set weekly cycle, usually I just ask myself what I feel like doing that day. Some days it might be a very short run, or just relaxing reading a book and watching TV. Other days I'm up for challenging myself with a very long run, steep hills or going faster. My longest runs were Marathons, but I would like to do an ultra, maybe a 50k, one of these days. Think it would be great distance training for a marathon!

              Long distance runner, what you standin' there for?
              Get up, get out, get out of the door!

              Half Crazy K 2.0

                Assuming same edition,  it's chapter 11 in Hudson's book: Adaptive Running for Youth and Masters Runners.