2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 384 times)

Ian5


    Jmac-Loved the report,the bit about 5 straight miles though,I'd have loved that,as long as no headwind,I love switching off and not thinking and long straights like that do that for me.Sad to hear about the runner who passed though.

    Pretty certain a Moose Mug is way beyond me.

    It finally feels like I'm getting over my last couple of races and can start training again,had another decent run today.

    Has anyone done the hospitality tent at Chicago? A clubmate is doing it,and as my wife had paid for my flights I'm debating joining him.

    5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

       

      Yeah, I know what you mean and we talked about it a few times. For me, personally, it's absolutely hilarious to even imagine that I am able to run 2:48 at age of 50 and not being able to run 2:34 at age of 35. So, sure - continue to call it "the hard one", but we all know what is the only thing that is harder at age of 35. And maybe we will talk about that again when you are 50 and you give us your perspective .at that time 

       

      No see that's the thing: I'm just going to throw stones now, retire soon, and then never have to back up any of my claims when I'm actually 50 

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

      Mikkey


      Elite Jogger

        I’ve never had a beer out of my MM as it’s actually pretty heavy, and I wouldn’t want to accidentally knock it over and smash it…so it stays in the glass cabinet. I’d love to say that it’s in my trophy cabinet, but unfortunately I’m not fast enough to have one. 

        Milkman - Great RR and looking good for the marathon, is dps still running it?

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


        Speed Surplus

           

          No see that's the thing: I'm just going to throw stones now, retire soon, and then never have to back up any of my claims when I'm actually 50 

           

          In all seriousness - don't retire! I "retired" from running after HS (well, technically after walking onto the college team and discovering how much harder and more time-consuming college running was than HS) in favor of basketball, and while I don't regret it per se, I'm curious about what kind of PRs I could have laid down. I ran 16-high for 5k XC when I was 16, coming off a summer when I didn't train at all. My first race that season was 21+ minutes, and I ran 16:53 on the home course before districts (17Tight lippedx on a tougher course at districts the following week or two).

           

          I had tons of fun playing basketball for a long time, but could I have run 15-low if I took running seriously in my 20s? Who knows!

          5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

          JMac11


          I spilled the milk

            Ian - I think calbears has run Chicago, not sure who else has

             

            Mikkey - I wrote that he had COVID and recovered, but I totally forgot he was hit by a car this past week! I thought it was pretty minor based upon what he said, but he hasn't run for 4 straight days now. What an awful thing to happen, it brought back bad memories of darkwave.

             

            SC - wow those are impressive times in high school! I was never that talented back then (18:45 5K was my best). I honestly think I'm getting close to my potential without cracking out 100+ mile weeks. I said after my 2:36 though that I'm happy with that being a lifetime PR as it was the last race distance I had to crack 6:00 per mile. If I had OTQ talent it would have been a different discussion.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

            Mikkey


            Elite Jogger

              I can't think of a bigger time-under-MM than Boyd's 2:30.

               

              A related question for the old-timers: what was the youngest MM you recall? I only remember "old" people, 40 and older getting them, but maybe there was a young-un like JMac way back who did it...

               

              I don’t remember anyone under 40 winning one back in the RW days and probably not surprising as most 30 somethings have a job and young family and it would take a lot of high mileage and dedication to get under 2:40. I think I’m the oldest MM winner and it would be cool if Milkman became the youngest MM winner. 

              Clever - Wow, that’s talent if you ran 16Tight lippedx at 16yo with minimum training…but you enjoyed basketball and followed what made you happy and that’s what you have to do in life!

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              Longboat


              On the roads again...

                 

                I don’t remember anyone under 40 winning one back in the RW days and probably not surprising as most 30 somethings have a job and young family and it would take a lot of high mileage and dedication to get under 2:40. I think I’m the oldest MM winner and it would be cool if Milkman became the youngest MM winner. 

                 

                Dan Edstrom (Daniel Pete on the old RWOL and Running Times) won a Mug at 37 with a 2:34:56. 

                Overall fastest time in the group that was aware of and competing for a Mug, IIRC, was Tom Deeg ("Butters") with a 2:27 in 2011. He and twin brother Justin ("Cartman") both ran 2:28's in 2010.  They were in their mid-20's then. 

                .ETA: As far as I can tell, Boyd's 2:30 at 47 is the most under Moose Mug target. John Loftus ("irunforbeer") is a few minutes behind with a 2:42 at 55 to win his age group st Boston 2013. He may be the oldest to earn a MM (58), but he mostly runs ultras now.

                Neil

                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson


                Pain is my friend

                  Hello I'm Krash. I have been on RA for many years but mostly kicking around the trail running forums. I recognize some of the names on here. I am 42 and live in the Salt Lake Valley of Utah. I have been running since I was 10. I ran my first marathon back in 2002. I have since run 25+ road marathons and at least 10 trail marathons. I switched to trail running about 9 years ago CIM 2:52. I have now run 16- 100 milers. 5 of them being 24 hour loop races where I ran over 100 miles. I just signed up for my first marathon in 9 years St. George on Oct 1st. Goal is sub 2:50. I want to race my younger self. I have run many sub 3s in the past. My best on this course is 2:56.

                   

                  I am a trail junky. Love to peak bag all summer. Most of my trail runs have 2-5k of vert. I love the 50k race. I hope to run my first 200 miler next year. I do Krash a lot hence the name. I keep track on my page for fun.  I have done a ton of road training for 24 hour loop races. The big Question is can I hit my goal now 9 years older?

                   

                  I will take any help/pointers to get me back in road shape. I have already started with some progressive runs.

                   

                  Past races:

                  2014- 19:40 antelope island 100 (Easy)

                  2015- 1:18:08 half

                  2015-13:30 100K

                  2015- 29:00  Wasatch 100 (hard)

                  2017- 25:42 Bryce 100 (mod)

                  2017-4:05 50k

                  2018- 20:36 Antelope island 100 (Easy)

                  2018- 1:21 half

                  2018- 25:57 Wasatch 100 (hard)

                  2019- Jack pot 24 130 1st overall

                  2019- 1:20 half

                  2019- 21:35 Western states 100 (mod)

                  2019- Across the years 24 141 miles PR 1st overall

                  2021- 22:23 Bryce 100 (mod) 3rd overall

                  2021-22:08 Bear 100 (hard)

                  2022- Feb- 14:58-  Jack pot 100 US Road championship 5th male

                  2022- Apr- 21:28 Zions 100 (mod)

                   

                  Up coming races:

                  Mccoy Flats Death race Vernal UT. Last man standing.

                  Half marathon in Aug

                  St George marathon in Oct

                  Across the years 24 in Dec- Goal 155

                  ATY 24   141.445 2020

                  Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                   

                  Revolution run 5 hours Jan 1 2022- 36 miles 1st

                  Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                  Zions 100- 21:24 4th

                  St George marathon Oct ?

                  24 hour loop race 

                   


                  Speed Surplus

                    Welcome Krash! I was glancing at those 21 and 22 times and thinking, well, that's a bit slow to break 3... Took me a moment to realize they were 100-mile times, not 5ks 😂 Anyway, if you were running 80 minute halves in 2019 I like your chances.

                     

                    "but you enjoyed basketball and followed what made you happy and that’s what you have to do in life!"

                     

                    Agreed - The college team required a FULL commitment and was a pretty solid program. I figured out pretty quickly that my heart wasn't in it and I think I made the right choice, but I do wish I would have tried a few races in my 20s when I had some good basketball fitness. No reason I had to totally exclude the sport of running!

                     

                    Any "talent" I had was probably due to being skinny as a rail - see below. (I did go to the same high school as Galen Rupp. I'm just a decade or so older.)

                     

                    5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                    JMac11


                    I spilled the milk

                       

                      Dan Edstrom (Daniel Pete on the old RWOL and Running Times) won a Mug at 37 with a 2:34:56. 


                       

                      What a great history longboat! Thank you, we have to officially nominate you as Advanced Marathoning Historian. It looks like I have my goal set though: get this MM when I'm 35 or 36.

                       

                      SC - that is such a good picture. It looks like it's from the 70s though!

                       

                      Krash - welcome aboard! I've seen you around and happy to have you. I think we can give more pointers as we start seeing your training week, but it's going to be pretty obvious the answer is not going to be traditional miles per week or long runs. My guess is a steady diet of LT runs will help you a lot, but that St. George's course is so unique that I feel like it requires specialized training in and of itself. However given you are an ultra guy, my guess is you are fully prepared for that quad beating already. I'd probably even recommend doing faster stuff this summer (5K/10K work) but have you even touched those paces recently? It may be a lot of your body to ask it to go that fast, even in training, and maybe it needs to be eased into.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        Krash HOLY *poop emoji* ! You could hit the goal. I would suggest speed work and a lot more road running. You're physically gifted when it comes to running. I honestly don't think I could do what you can do if I did the same training. After years of 100 mile races it might just take some "reacquaintance time" with road speed for you before you can get that 2:50. You probably have the legs to run lots of downhill. I just always recommend someone do a 9+ downhill run at race pace, if possible, before race day just to dial in effort/feel/actual pace. I saw lots of runners leaning back during my Revel Mt. Charleston and was advised to lean forward more. It made so much sense after seeing a runner leaning back relative to the road as to why I'd want to lean forward. The hill is 4-5% downhill and I'd never run another road leaning back 4-5%. At least eating during a marathon might be easier. By the time you'd have a problem the race is probably over.

                        Also, what's your training plan going to look like? Lots of 80-100 mile weeks? Speed work? Marathon/tempo runs? Structured plan or "I make it up as I go along?

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 54.9

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                        mmerkle


                           

                          In all seriousness - don't retire! I "retired" from running after HS (well, technically after walking onto the college team and discovering how much harder and more time-consuming college running was than HS) in favor of basketball, and while I don't regret it per se, I'm curious about what kind of PRs I could have laid down. I ran 16-high for 5k XC when I was 16, coming off a summer when I didn't train at all. My first race that season was 21+ minutes, and I ran 16:53 on the home course before districts (17Tight lippedx on a tougher course at districts the following week or two).

                           

                          I had tons of fun playing basketball for a long time, but could I have run 15-low if I took running seriously in my 20s? Who knows!

                           

                          Nice. One of my goals is to break 17 for 5k. Not sure if you have advice on that or not. My best was a 17:15 en route to my best 10k of 34:58. But that was back in 2014 when I was in my prime. Still trying to get back to that. It doesn't help that I absolutely hate the 5k lol. Most painful short distance in my opinion.


                          Pain is my friend

                            I still do lots of road. I live too far away from the trails to run every day. I do a lot of progressive runs. In the last 2 weeks I have done a 10miler and 8 miler. Pace started at about 8 min a mile and the last around 6:30. I know I have some work to do. I do a fare amount of down hill running. Just Monday I dropped 4500 feet in 6 miles on trail. The up was harder with 4500 ft of vert in 4.7 miles. My fastest long run lately was 15 miles at about 7:30 pace. My normal mileage load is 50-70 miles a week.  Back in the day 50 miles would be my peak for 2-3 weeks for a sub 3 marathon. I defiantly plan to do some tempo runs also. I think I will start at about 7 min pace and later slowly drop to a 6:30. I know I have work to do and can't wait to get to it. I have a 6x 3 min on/off workout planed today at half marathon pace.

                             

                            I have lost a lot of speed in that last year. I change my diet to Keto/Fat adapted. At first I took a big hit to my speed. I am slowly getting it back. Keto did amazing things for my 100 milers. My early training this year for Jack pot 100, I was doing a lot of my long runs 22-25 miles at a 3:20 marathon pace. I feel I could run that this weekend if needed. I will have to add some more carbs to my diet to get the speed I want.

                             

                            Running Problem- Thanks and there will be structured plan. I have been self coached for all most my running life and feel I did great. About 3 years ago I hired a coach to get better at 100 milers and 24 hour loop races. Just last year I hired a ultra running coach and it has bad a big difference. He knows marathon too. The fat adapted diet has help tons too.

                            ATY 24   141.445 2020

                            Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                             

                            Revolution run 5 hours Jan 1 2022- 36 miles 1st

                            Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                            Zions 100- 21:24 4th

                            St George marathon Oct ?

                            24 hour loop race 

                             

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              .ETA: As far as I can tell, Boyd's 2:30 at 47 is the most under Moose Mug target. 

                               

                              A local Masters runner I know ran 2:27 at 44 a week or so back.  A couple days before his 45th birthday.

                               

                              Most runners I know haven't actually heard of it though, so I'm assuming it started on an internet forum somewhere.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                              Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 20 August

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              CommanderKeen


                              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                                I still do lots of road. I live too far away from the trails to run every day. I do a lot of progressive runs. In the last 2 weeks I have done a 10miler and 8 miler. Pace started at about 8 min a mile and the last around 6:30. I know I have some work to do. I do a fare amount of down hill running. Just Monday I dropped 4500 feet in 6 miles on trail. The up was harder with 4500 ft of vert in 4.7 miles. My fastest long run lately was 15 miles at about 7:30 pace. My normal mileage load is 50-70 miles a week.  Back in the day 50 miles would be my peak for 2-3 weeks for a sub 3 marathon. I defiantly plan to do some tempo runs also. I think I will start at about 7 min pace and later slowly drop to a 6:30. I know I have work to do and can't wait to get to it. I have a 6x 3 min on/off workout planed today at half marathon pace.

                                 

                                I have lost a lot of speed in that last year. I change my diet to Keto/Fat adapted. At first I took a big hit to my speed. I am slowly getting it back. Keto did amazing things for my 100 milers. My early training this year for Jack pot 100, I was doing a lot of my long runs 22-25 miles at a 3:20 marathon pace. I feel I could run that this weekend if needed. I will have to add some more carbs to my diet to get the speed I want.

                                 

                                Running Problem- Thanks and there will be structured plan. I have been self coached for all most my running life and feel I did great. About 3 years ago I hired a coach to get better at 100 milers and 24 hour loop races. Just last year I hired a ultra running coach and it has bad a big difference. He knows marathon too. The fat adapted diet has help tons too.

                                 

                                The part in bold disgusts me! 

                                5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                 

                                Riverside 5000 - 8/13

                                Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                                CIM - 12/4