Lactate Threshold (Read 429 times)


And in the end...

    So simple, really...

     

    running

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    The GITM is moot.

      This issue of simplicity always comes up, and I find it endlessly fascinating.

       

      Human beings have limited attention. Fact.

       

      We are able to function in the world despite our limited attention because blind habit takes over so many processes. In this sense, blind habit is our greatest friend (and worst enemy).

       

      How much of our running uses attention? And how much of it is blind habit? I'd argue that the vastest majority of running is simply blind habit, and only the smallest fraction of running is a matter of our attention.

       

      So, real and sincere question, what to do with this modicum of attention? What's the best use of this highly limited resource for running?

        So, real and sincere question, what to do with this modicum of attention? What's the best use of this highly limited resource for running?

         

        For me racing requires a whole lot of attention. Intervals (not that I do them), tempos, & MP runs require attention. Everything else is just one foot in front of the other.


        Fat butt on couch


           

          How much of our running uses attention? And how much of it is blind habit? I'd argue that the vastest majority of running is simply blind habit, and only the smallest fraction of running is a matter of our attention.

           

          So, real and sincere question, what to do with this modicum of attention? What's the best use of this highly limited resource for running?

           

          As someone who must now spend every stride trying to correct for a bad habit which led, over time, to a significant injury, I can say that it is mentally exhausting to have to deliberately follow through with good form every time my left leg comes forward.  It is such a simple thing but having to spend attention on it rather than leaving it to habit is draining.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

            On my little jog today a lot of my (and others' I'm sure) attention was on my ass.

            Runners run.


            I'm back!

              On my little jog today a lot of my (and others' I'm sure) attention was on my ass.

               

              Been there

                 

                Been there

                 

                Note to self: Self, never run Bay to Breakers unless fit enough to stay in front of bhearn.

                  On my little jog today a lot of my (and others' I'm sure) attention was on my ass.

                   

                  Yes, every fricken step I think about my arse and why I overtrained and pushed through high hamstring pain in 2007. I haven't been the same since.

                  Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                     

                    Of course you are not learning to run, that box is checked somewhere around the age of two.  You are learning to finish in first place or did you not read the post above yours?

                     

                    Can you get better without a HRM, without a watch of any kind?  Sure you can.  No doubt some runners can improve juat running on feel.  No doubt Spaniel could stuff himself with Tastykakes, bourbon and pork ribs every day for a year while chain smoking, and still get up off the couch and beat me like I owed him money.  It doesn't mean that a hrm is not a useful tool for someone else simply because you are cool enough to accomplish as much or more doing it the Jedi way.

                     

                    Some of you sound like grumpy old men, reminiscing about the good old days bemoaning technology as if it makes running less authentic.   You can have that 70's nostalgia all to yourself.  Short shorts, cotton tube socks, Keds, bad hair and a lot fewer runners....

                     

                    Aaahh... Those were the days. But it was the blue and yellow Nike Waffle Trainers.


                    I'm back!

                      Yes, every fricken step I think about my arse and why I overtrained and pushed through high hamstring pain in 2007. I haven't been the same since.

                       

                      That's me now. I've cut out the speedwork, but I can't make myself reduce mileage or cut out hills. Presumably, the original slight strain (November) has long since healed, and I am dealing with leftover adhesions and crap, that my massage therapist says she worked through last time... why isn't it going away? I'd give a lot for a magic ability to look into my muscles and see what was going on.


                      I'm back!

                         If I recall correctly in Pfitz and Douglas they talk about between 15k and HM race pace. Maybe they're just assuming that people are faster than most of us Smile

                         

                        Definitely. The LT workouts especially are tailored for faster runners. Can you imagine doing 7 continuous miles at LT when you're a 1-hour 10ker? It's impossible by definition. My LT pace is about 6:25-6:30, and that's still a killer workout, longer (duration) than most plans would have you run at that effort.

                           

                          Definitely. The LT workouts especially are tailored for faster runners. Can you imagine doing 7 continuous miles at LT when you're a 1-hour 10ker? It's impossible by definition. My LT pace is about 6:25-6:30, and that's still a killer workout, longer (duration) than most plans would have you run at that effort.

                           

                          I always figured you had to read a "7 miles" as "35 minutes" and adjust distance accordingly, which is still a ballsy workout. Nobody should do 45 minutes at LT pace in a workout, that's crazy talk.

                          Runners run.

                             

                            It might be approximately LT but what difference does it make? Seriously you're doing a workout by effort on the type of terrain and conditions that you plan to race on--sounds like a tempo effort to me.

                             

                            I never consider "about 1 hour race pace" to mean that I need to run the pace I could run on flat ground in good weather even if I'm training on hills and/or in shitty weather. That's why effort is so much better than pace or HR--it's totally portable.

                             

                            When I do long hill repeats I never even bother to calculate my pace because I'm sure it would be too slow to mean anything to me, most likely slower than a 7 minute mile--but I consider this an "LT" workout nonetheless.

                             

                            A small amount of common sense goes a long way in this sport.

                            Thanks. This is what I was getting at. Neither pace nor HR is perfect and effort is hard to log, so many people just use what metric works best for them in logging a run.

                            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

                               

                              I don't think what you do has any real connection with what the vast majority of other posters do. I've seen you throw  in a "what about me" reply a few times before but your situation seems rather unique.  I mean, a 27 min pace? That's not running. That's not even walking. That's like climbing up a mountain or something. Obviously the physiological parameters that have been spoken of in this thread aren't going to play out in the same way for you.

                               

                              So you just have to find what works for you and ignore things that aren't pertinent to your situation.  I don't think LT has much to do with what you need to focus on. Extended bursts of power and the ability to recover from efforts repeatedly sounds more in line with what you would need. There are obviously much larger mechanical differences that will come into play, too.

                              My purpose in some of these posts is not "what about me", esp. in Running 101, but generalizing from flat, pavement to more general terrain and environmental conditions - so people could learn principles. A really new runner may not recognize those issues and try to run x min/mi up whatever - or in snow. I know I struggled with some things early on cuz I didn't understand some of these things. My original online group was a mix of everything from sprinters to trail and ultra runners. Many of our races are in the mountains or on rolling hill trails, not on the relatively flat roads.

                               

                              Yes, that 27 min/mi was from an uphill mountain race (a several min PR for me on that course)  where we went up 2000ft in 2.2 mi at a ski area - and that's one of the faster races. (note in the pictures that they attract everyone from fast competitors to families and older folks) I think the physiological parameters probably *are* the same, it's just that the metrics by which they are described might need to be modified - depending upon where you learned running terminology initially. (Not everyone had track and xc opportunities in hs.)

                               

                              Yes, I do lots of hills of all sizes, shapes, durations, and intensities. Tempo efforts uphill should physiologically be the same as tempo effort on flat - just a bit slower by pace (sorry, but my tempo efforts are the same HR uphill or on the flat - they feel the same cardio-wise).

                              I threw in that relatively flat tempo run last week partly because of our rotten snow conditions at the moment and for curiosity.

                               

                              I would go absolutely bonkers if I had to pay attention to pace and all those calculations you folks do rather than go by feel. Smile One foot in front of the other - forward or upward.

                               

                              Gotta go run.

                              "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

                                 

                                Yes, that 27 min/mi was from an uphill mountain race (a several min PR for me on that course)  where we went up 2000ft in 2.2 mi at a ski area - and that's one of the faster races. 

                                 

                                Wow. Those are some very, very fit looking folks. Much more so than at the average races/runs that I've been to.