Forums >Off the Beaten Path>Why Is the Republican Field So Extreme?
Feeling the growl again
Damn hippies.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
#3. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. #4. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. #5. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. #7. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. #19b. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. #20. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
#3. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
#4. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
#5. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
#7. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
#19b. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
#20. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
Really? Wall Street to blame for these?
(Some of the others seem to be real questions and concerns...)
But,
Some statements seem to be a stretch in terms of accusations (#3) (there are people within organizations that may make mistakes, not the highest level).
Some seem to stem from the government, not Wall Street (thinking specifically of WMD #20)
Some seem to be emotional statements to generate emotional response (#3, #5, #7).
Thanks for sharing the list. Truth is that it lost my attention after reading the 3rd, 4th, and 5th accusation that "they" did. Read through them thoroughly, and I don't know what to make of all of them. It was, however, very informative, since I haven't been following much of it.
Cheers,
Life Goals:
#1: Do what I can do
#2: Enjoy life
Why is it sideways?
Well, we used to blame these things on human nature. Now, humans are organized into corporate institutions, so we blame them...
The vagueness of the "they" is frustrating.
Big problems, vague causes, such is the nature of social protest. I guess in moments I understand the cynicism. Maybe also in other moments you understand why I want to believe.
Dave
I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it. dgb2n@yahoo.com
Options,Account, Forums
You need to let your calves free. And your ps.
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
You'll ruin your knees!
""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)
"It is the choice of posters on this thread whether they want to continue to play that tired game, hurl epithets, and seek for differences instead of common ground."
That piece of real estate has gotten pretty small lately.
At least Perry and I have agreed to let my calves be free.
It's a start. At this afternoon's council, I will state it loudly for all to hear and others in the crowd will repeat it to pass it through the throng of connection. And that will make all the difference.
You know it is tough to find common ground based on those list of demands. I do agree with #2 if they mean the financial industry but hard to tell. Who is "they"? Can be nearly anyone. There are huge general claims but it would be nice to see some proof of the claims but perhaps that is elsewhere in their manifesto. Also, no solutions even mentioned in generic terms. Stripped of the right to negotiate at work, ill treatment of animals, holding students hostage through debt on education (how many people worked to put themselves through college). And on and on.
I've read some victimhood stuff in the past but this one is in the top five. Certainly a bummer that the entire infrastructure is stacked against them and they see no way out except their current path. I guess those neighbors of mine that lost their jobs and started a small business which is now successful are just lucky to have hit life's lotto. Or no wait, they decided to take the bull by the horns and do something instead of relying on someone else to give them something. And all that from two people with only HS public education. Perhaps they are the only such story in this country like that. I am sending a nice care package to NYS with a wheel of sharp cheddar. It should go well with that whine.
Damn Hippies indeed.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
You know it is tough to find common ground based on those list of demands..........Perhaps they are the only such story in this country like that. I am sending a nice care package to NYS with a wheel of sharp cheddar. It should go well with that whine. Damn Hippies indeed.
You know it is tough to find common ground based on those list of demands..........Perhaps they are the only such story in this country like that. I am sending a nice care package to NYS with a wheel of sharp cheddar. It should go well with that whine.
While my prior post pretty much summed up my overall feelings on this (thanks Jeff for finding this and posting it), I must qualify that I can sympathize with a few of their demands...if I make assumptions around the vaguary of it all. Yes, I was irate when they bailed out the banks and gave them a golden parachute encrusted with diamonds (if they were "too big to fail" then they were too big to exist, break them up and send a message). Yes, I believe corporate interests have too much sway with the federal government.
It about ends there however. I guess they are re-writing the Constitution to make advanced education a basic human right (then emigrate to Finland you damn hippie, where they consider high-speed internet a basic human right). A living wage for simply existing...there's the end to personal responsibility...if you are happy with a conservative lifestyle, you are supposed to be able to leach off the rest of us for life??
The whol manifesto smacks of ignorance, entitlement, and a victim mentality. Buck up hippies, if you put as much passion into bettering your place in life as you did occupying a park in NYC perhaps you wouldn't be where you are. Nobody guaranteed you a smooth road in life.
MTA: I agree with C-R, it'd be really tough to even find a place to start having a rational conversation with these people, if this is where they are starting out. Based on their willingness to put this list forward, I would doubt they have any interest in a true moderate, common ground approach.
Prince of Fatness
Maybe also in other moments you understand why I want to believe.
I certainly understand. I want to believe, too. I'm trying.
Well funded influence in government is a problem. I find it interesting that folks on the left will say that entities such as the big bad corporations have too much influence in government while folks on the right blame entities such as the big bad unions. Yet, each side seems to give the big bad entity on their side a pass. Seems too convenient to me at times.
So whose fault is it. Corporations? Unions? Government? Or is it us, for enabling all of this behavior? Have we become apathetic? Or is the problem so enormous that as individuals we feel it is just too big and we are paralyzed by it?
What can be done? Well, maybe we can just start by becoming more informed. And vote. And understand that any solution will involve compromise, sacrifice, and a bit of hard work. There was a point in my life that I became fed up and didn't vote. Now I vote. If there is one thing that I could do better it is becoming more informed. I'm working on that. Believe or not threads like these are helpful in that regard.
How's that for a random Friday rambling?
Not at it at all.
I like this bit from CNN:
"We hope that our message continues to resonate with with everyone who has felt disenfranchised by the current state of our country," said Tyler Combelic, a spokesman for the Occupy Wall Street group. He said they plan "to protest until the message every house in the United States." The specifics of that message remain largely unclear.
In other words, they will not stop until every American household is scratching their heads as to what this is all about, other than mobs of generally unhappy young people.
I would say that we can no longer make a clear distinction between the public sector and the private sector. Do small businesses have anything in common with Wall Street (does the same concept of "private sector" really adequately describe both of these capitalist enterprises)? Does Washington have anything to do with the common good (does the concept of "public" really apply to government anymore)? These are the questions that the protest is raising, I think. And I add the "I think" not as a way of hedging my statement, but as a way of pointing out that how we choose to interpret this event will determine to a large degree whether or not it ends up being successful or meaningful. The battle is not between private interest and public interest; it's not between business and government. The battle is between the interests of the vast majority of ordinary Americans and the interests of a small and powerful few.
I would say that we can no longer make a clear distinction between the public sector and the private sector. Do small businesses have anything in common with Wall Street (does the same concept of "private sector" really adequately describe both of these capitalist enterprises)? Does Washington have anything to do with the common good (does the concept of "public" really apply to government anymore)?
These are the questions that the protest is raising, I think. And I add the "I think" not as a way of hedging my statement, but as a way of pointing out that how we choose to interpret this event will determine to a large degree whether or not it ends up being successful or meaningful.
The battle is not between private interest and public interest; it's not between business and government. The battle is between the interests of the vast majority of ordinary Americans and the interests of a small and powerful few.
As a member of the bottom 99% I have no real idea what the OWS protest(s) and its offshoots (like Occupy Boston) hope to accomplish and I don't feel like they speak for me. It seems pointless to rant against an almost random list of insults that the omnipresent "They" have committed against us.
But I definitely agree with this post. The battle lines are not between the private and public sector but interests of the vast majority of Americans and the interest of a small and powerful few.
This article in today's Globe points to the extent to which the lines between political fundraising and the rich getting richer can get be blurred to your benefit if you're fortunate enough to be among the 1%, or have a dad who is.
“It’s really a story about back-scratching by influential people, money moving around,’’ said historian Stephen Hess, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think-tank, who served in the Eisenhower and Nixon administrations and advised presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter.
Hess said Solamere is an example of how such business and political elites operate “in the first-class compartment.’’
It is well established that Romney’s business background and ties helped build his political power. In 2008, Zwick flipped that formula upside down, using political leverage to kick off a multimillion-dollar investment firm.
Runners run
I believe We The People are at fault for being largely short-sighted in selfish as to what we want out of government and reflecting this in the platforms we vote for. Politicians are at fault for no longer being "civil servants" but serving themselves on what they can get out of their time in Washington and caring more about votes than the voters behind them, making them kow-tow to special interests funneling money into their campaigns. Corporations and unions are both at fault -- indirectly for being allowed to have the lobbying power they do, and directly for self-centered interests. I see little to no actions by anybody, at a macro level, that put the collective good above personal interests.
The one common ground I see between the Tea Party on one end of the spectrum and OWS on the other, is that they are irate at the status quo...though what exactly they are irate about differs. I don't think there is much overlap in the solutions (OWS hasn't even proposed any however), but perhaps in their diametrically opposed but similarly motivated efforts they will create so much turmoil with the status quo that something will HAVE to change for the better.
I certainly understand. I want to believe, too. I'm trying. Well funded influence in government is a problem. I find it interesting that folks on the left will say that entities such as the big bad corporations have too much influence in government while folks on the right blame entities such as the big bad unions. Yet, each side seems to give the big bad entity on their side a pass. Seems too convenient to me at times. So whose fault is it. Corporations? Unions? Government? Or is it us, for enabling all of this behavior? Have we become apathetic? Or is the problem so enormous that as individuals we feel it is just too big and we are paralyzed by it? What can be done? Well, maybe we can just start by becoming more informed. And vote. And understand that any solution will involve compromise, sacrifice, and a bit of hard work. There was a point in my life that I became fed up and didn't vote. Now I vote. If there is one thing that I could do better it is becoming more informed. I'm working on that. Believe or not threads like these are helpful in that regard. How's that for a random Friday rambling?
Great post! Great questions. Thank you.
Comments / thoughts as I was reading, though...
"Or is it us, for enabling all of this behavior?" I think so, and also for not recognizing the problem when they were manageable (years ago).
"And vote." Vote for what? There's not much presented worth voting for. No vision presented.
"Believe or not threads like these are helpful in that regard." I absolutely agree. This is the most informative thread on RA right now, but it has evolved significantly over the past few weeks.