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30/30's, 60/60's, 3-3's, 3's with short rest vs traditional intervals. (Read 1570 times)

dallasboycows


    ok so I just did 20 30-30's at 3k pace maybe 2-3 secs faster than vvo2max actually with recovery at 50% vvo2max for 30 secs.  Normally I do repeat 400's with 40 sec recovery fininished with a few 200's and then maybe one or two 100's or 800's with the same finish. 

     

    Now this 30/30 workout is supposed to keep you at vo2max for a lot longer than say running 3-5 minute maxes with recovery x 3,4,5,6 sets or longer than the 400's and 800's.

     

    My question is, has anyone done these and had good results.  I didn't feel like it was hard at all to say the least.  I mean usually when I do my 400's or 800's I use the slow end of the scale with mcmillians calculator and by the end of the workout I'm feeling like Jello and about to vomit.

     

    I guess I just don't know where I should be concentrating my speedwork.  Long intervals seem tempting like mile repeats with short recovery.  I'm seeing a lot of progress I just can't always decide with so many different views. 

     

    So, what's my goal for these runs?  I don't know.  I really didn't have the full timeline to go through each phase of training as my major race which is 10 miles(probably only like 8 or so of running and plus breaks of obstacles) was only 4 months from when I started.  So basically I'm trying to basebuild, build vo2max, LT, all that all at the same time until the race is over and then I can start from just a base phase.

      Typically 30/30's are meant to be an end of season workout before an important race to get some work in that is faster than race pace. It's not supposed to be a draining workout, just a tune up. Long intervals are better for an early to mid season workout so it depends where you are in your training.

      dallasboycows


        i have two months to go.  I'm 3 months in.

        dallasboycows


          i calculated my times and ran each 30 sec interval in maybe one to two secs faster than I usually do my 400's and I only take 40 sec's rest on my 400 days.  So yeah this was definately an easy workout as my normal 400's are in about 82 so it would take like 50 intervals to match my other session.  Don't think I'll be doing this workout again unless I'm doing very large reps. 

           

          Perhaps the 60-60 or the 3-3 would be better.

            My peaking intervals are 4 X 200 hard twice per week. This is all the speed I do. You are doing basically 20 X 175m. Unless you are running 100 miles per week and trying to peak, you have no business doing this type of work out while building your base and aerobic stamina. It serves no function. Building miles will build your max v02. If you want to throw in a couple v02 session the last couple weeks before your race that is fine but I wouldn't recommend them for you then either.

             

            As far as speed work. You don't need 20 reps of 30/30s. Do some long intervals of 1K or 1 mile at tempo or 10K effort (not necessarily pace) with 90 sec recoveries and then 4 X 200m or 4-5 X 30 sec fast like mile pace or so would do a hell of a lot more to improve your stamina for a 10 mile run/race than 20 X 30/30s. You are fast enough, you don't need all that speed work. You need more miles (base work) with a stamina/strength work out mid week.

            Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

            dallasboycows


              thanks. I'll look into doing that.  I guess somewhere in the back of my head i'm really training for a 5k as that is my fav distance and as soon as this tough mudder is over that will likely be the only event I will do except maybe sprint triaths.

               

              from everything i've read on the studies even in the marathons that they studied the kenyans, the two prime indicators to race pace were VO2max and more importantly vVo2max which is what the 30/30, 60/60's etc. train as well as some LT raising.  with around 25 intervals you can get almost 17 minutes of training at vo2max. 

               

              Doing mile repeats for a less experienced runner I would think would be hard as he would tire out or be quite sore as the workout would be demanding.  I'm not sure though.  Just going off of some of the stuff I've read from billat and astrand.

               

              http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/fitness-workouts-how-to-increase-your-vo2max-208

                Dude, if there was an award given for consistently over complicating a simple subject, you would win.

                xor


                  1) So, what's my goal for these runs?  I don't know.  .. 
                  2) So basically I'm trying to basebuild, build vo2max, LT, all that all at the same time until the race is over and then I can start from just a base phase.

                   

                  1) If you don't know your destination, it doesn't matter which road you take.  Said differently, why are you getting so super detailed without taking a step back and answering "why?"

                   

                  2) Yeah.  Don't explode.

                   

                    ok so I just did 20 30-30's at 3k pace maybe 2-3 secs faster than vvo2max actually with recovery at 50% vvo2max for 30 secs.  Normally I do repeat 400's with 40 sec recovery fininished with a few 200's and then maybe one or two 100's or 800's with the same finish. 

                     

                    Now this 30/30 workout is supposed to keep you at vo2max for a lot longer than say running 3-5 minute maxes with recovery x 3,4,5,6 sets or longer than the 400's and 800's.

                     

                    My question is, has anyone done these and had good results.  I didn't feel like it was hard at all to say the least.  I mean usually when I do my 400's or 800's I use the slow end of the scale with mcmillians calculator and by the end of the workout I'm feeling like Jello and about to vomit.

                     

                    I guess I just don't know where I should be concentrating my speedwork.  Long intervals seem tempting like mile repeats with short recovery.  I'm seeing a lot of progress I just can't always decide with so many different views. 

                     

                    So, what's my goal for these runs?  I don't know.  I really didn't have the full timeline to go through each phase of training as my major race which is 10 miles(probably only like 8 or so of running and plus breaks of obstacles) was only 4 months from when I started.  So basically I'm trying to basebuild, build vo2max, LT, all that all at the same time until the race is over and then I can start from just a base phase.

                    I thought you were not doing any anaerobic stuff because of cortisol destroying your aerobic conditioning???  Or am I thinking about someone else??? 

                      1) If you don't know your destination, it doesn't matter which road you take.  Said differently, why are you getting so super detailed without taking a step back and answering "why?"

                       

                      2) Yeah.  Don't explode.

                      Spot-on, mate.  Gosh, you're doing good these days...  So when's your show-down with Jester?  Or have we finally gotten rid of him? 

                      xor


                        No show down. After I accepted, he started adding silly rules to it ("you have to run barefoot", "you can't eat for 3 days beforehand", "we'll do it on treadmills facing each other", etc) so I unaccepted.  If that makes me look like less of a man to him (or anyone) or I "blinked" or I lost, that's fine by me.

                         

                        I suspect he will be back.

                         

                          No show down. After I accepted, he started adding silly rules to it ("you have to run barefoot", "you can't eat for 3 days beforehand", "we'll do it on treadmills facing each other", etc) so I unaccepted.  If that makes me look like less of a man to him (or anyone) or I "blinked" or I lost, that's fine by me.

                           

                          I suspect he will be back.

                          So basically, he deciced, whoever gave him the right or authority to do so, to twist around the rules to suit him in so much way that you'd have no choice but shake your head and say, "Forget it!"

                           

                          Funny, to me, running is to get from Point A to Point B and see who gets there fastest.  I can tell Jester that we'll race, head-to-head, in ANY distance he choses--and I'll give him that--at any time of the day, under any condition, barefoot or bare-ass or whatever, and the first Japanese would claim the victory.  I'll add that one last rule to it! ;o) 

                          dallasboycows


                            ya'll crack me up.  And yes it was me that said the cortisol comments but I am taking the advice of everyone in that thread that muscle breakdown doesn't outweigh the benefits to the training.  And most of my work is aerobic.  like I said just a few short anerobic 100's, 200's, etc.  I'm also taking supplementation to lower cortisol levels. 

                             

                            and yes I'm kind of just wandering blindly with no specific goal except to get faster.  I may not win the race(Well no maybe) but I am progressing very fast.  Went from running one two miles at ten minutes a mile, to running five in under 30 and ten miles even on my lsd day in like 9 minutes a mile.  Nothing worthy of a trophy but I've came a long ways in 3 months I think.

                             

                            So no ostrich race, no video running without the arms, hmmm....


                            Fat butt on couch

                               

                               

                              I guess I just don't know where I should be concentrating my speedwork. 

                               

                              Then this should help.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               

                              dallasboycows


                                3) 400m-3000m intervals with short recoveries

                                 

                                Any particular distance you recommend for medium distance runners?

                                 

                                and this is what I've already been doing with the 400's and 800's with 40 sec and 1:30 recoveries respectively.

                                 

                                so 3000m is short recovery too?  if my vv02max 6 minute test I can do 1800 meters, I wouldn't think I should be doing intervals over that for aerobic development.  Is that right or no?  And if I do mile intervals what should the rest be.  jog half the run-time?  I'm happy with what I'm doing but thought about adding some mile repeats and was confused as I've seen some that say very very short recovery to get used to running at that pace and I've seen many that say 3 minutes etc?

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