2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

Today has been a Monday for sure.  I slept through my alarm after a rough night of sleep, so no run this morning. I brought things to work to run at lunch, but nothing for rain and it's now raining sideways out (bad planning on my part. I should have known, but the forecast was no rain until a little later today so I thought I'd be able to sneak it in). Hopefully I will be able to run after work, even if it's short. Hopefully tomorrow will be a little smoother.

Darkwave: Good plan on the caffeine - I think later is better. I didn't figure that out until my second or third time running that race, when I realized my headache was probably a lack of caffeine. Now I just bring something to the AV with me.

Brewing: That's an impressive improvement from Hansons - congrats! It sounds like you have a new (?) baby too -- congrats again. Babies are great. So are toddlers, and even teenagers.

FB: All non profit lawyers are great -- it's a prerequisite for the job. (Kidding). Congrats on hitting 200 miles/month!

Katia: That's nice you have a shower at work - If I run at work I just don't shower, and hope nobody minds too much.

Hello to everyone else!

In the meantime, yesterday I ran 8k on the track at roughly goal marathon pace of 7:17. It was a medium effort and my avg. HR came out to 157, but it was definitely creeping up to 160-162 in the last mile or so. So, question: Is there anything that can be extrapolated from that information? What kind of HR is usually sustainable for a marathon? All I know is that my easy runs are usually 135-145, and a 5k will be in the mid 170s, maybe getting to 180 by the end.

I think it's individual.    My last three marathons, all run on different types of courses in different weather conditions, all had remarkably similar HR profiles.  Starts in mid-160s, rises through mid-170s to late 170s, and then peaks in the low 180s at the end.  See here.  My HR also peaks in the 180s for a 5K, so there you go.  And it only hit the mid-170s in my recent half-marathon - probably because it was cold then.

I've never hit the 180s during a mile race, bizarrely enough.

What I take from this is that you can't place too much trust in HR - it's very dependent on weather conditions and hydration status, and can be very slow to adjust to your effort.  My HR also bumps up if I have to pee....

I do try to keep my HR in the mid-160s, rising to low 170s during MP work, because that seems to match marathon pace and marathon effort to me when training.

 

Indeed, I have been scoping things out for a triumphant return... once I hit 30 mpw. I still haven't gotten there - I've been upper-20s for the last 5 weeks or so.

 

...In the meantime, yesterday I ran 8k on the track at roughly goal marathon pace of 7:17. It was a medium effort and my avg. HR came out to 157, but it was definitely creeping up to 160-162 in the last mile or so. So, question: Is there anything that can be extrapolated from that information? What kind of HR is usually sustainable for a marathon? All I know is that my easy runs are usually 135-145, and a 5k will be in the mid 170s, maybe getting to 180 by the end.

Upper 20s is still a dream for me.  Heck, lower 20s. I'm managing 12 right now.  Coming back from zero hurts.

As far as your question goes, it's...kind of irrelevant.  Limiting factor is endurance, which you can't determine from 8k.  Though I'd say that if your HR was creeping up after only 8k you're in no way ready for a marathon at that pace.  I use Greg Maclin's HR chart and it's fairly accurate for me, but again, the HR is only part of the picture for the marathon distance.

 

Though I'd say that if your HR was creeping up after only 8k you're in no way ready for a marathon at that pace. 

Whaddaya mean I'm not ready? I've been averaging 25 mpw for 8 weeks! 

For real though, while I have no idea how fit I am (or am not), I have no illusions about being marathon-fit right now. I think if I had done 10 or 15 miles at that pace I would have been at an unsustainable heart rate way before the end.

I'm just curious about effort perception, as I've started to get more of a sense of what 130, 140, 150, or 160 bpm "feels" like for me. I haven't worn a HR monitor during a marathon before, so I have no personal data. And it crapped out during the one race I ran last year, so I don't have data from that, either. I estimated what it might be during a 5k in my previous post based on little bits of hard running at roughly 5k pace here and there.

I think currently it sounds almost impossible to have that "160 bpm feeling" for a whole marathon, but people do sustain that kind of HR. Maybe the feeling changes with more fitness and endurance? IDK.

Welcome Jamie.

Nice to see you post SClever.

Rozzie ~ Congrats on beating your non-goal. Humidity is tough, so even better.

Those of you returning from injury, stay patient!

OMR -- hope you are healing. Do you have a schedule to start running again?

 

45 last week with 15@8:14 yesterday (1,000 ft) and 7:29 last mile. That's a good run for me, so yay. 200 @ 8:17 for the month -- best month in 2+ years.

FB:  Good to see your comeback continue.  As for me, no schedule.  There was some excess fluid in the joint, which was causing pain, but that has subsided, so the source of pain has shifted.  At this point, my primary thought is inflammation of a tendon/ligament, but I know it could also be a worsening of osteoarthritis.  Everything feels pretty normal now, except for when I bend my knee with pressure/weight on my heel.  I've debated going to a Dr. to get it checked out, but I don't think anything is structurally wrong, or that it is a torn meniscus or ligament, so my guess is that they would just say to rest it, etc., which is basically what I'm doing.  If it's in the same condition in another week, I'll probably head in.

In the meantime, 70 minutes on the elliptical for me today.

My Training Last week

Ace Were your hills on a treadmill? I've considered doing some hill workouts there. The 5K training DW linked (bookmarked ) mentions two types of hill workouts. The long hill repeats are about 1 minute long and they suggest a 6% grade. I might have to go out and do these Friday. Also, that 12 mile Saturday run... (insert fire emoji) SMOKING! I guess I shouldn't be surprised because you have like an 17 minute 5K time. One way to get in some long runs with a kiddo is to run them really fast I guess.

oregon yeah he's about 8 weeks old. Wife is doing a lot of the ground work.

Clever Marathons I'm 160-170. 172 isn't sustainable for very long and higher is harder. I'll get some 5K data in March but what I remember about racing is it didn't matter what distance I ran I stayed in the 160-170 range. The difference was the speed I was running and the distance. 6:26 pace will probably get the heart rate up really quick but I'm not doing 26.3 miles at that pace...yet. I'd look at what your max hit for those intervals. Here is an interval workout I did last week. Average heart rate is around what yours was. Max is a little higher. I'm not sure I believe 6:02 pace with a 160 max for my last interval. It didn't FEEL like 160. 2016 CIM results (check the last 2 miles). 2016 half marathon. 2015 CIM results. All of these are/were PRs. I might just be special and my heart works just as hard at a 5K as it does for a marathon.I'd say the beginning of CIM feels like 160 the two times I've run it but maybe I'm just in a blurred state at that point.

Arvind those hill repeats are intersting. Did you do up and down hard? Saw some 6:00 paces mixed in there. Also, I didn't know Strava had a "weights" category. I'll have to figure that out to enter the TRX workouts I'm not doing.

Question: How would you interpret this hill workout "Recovery between reps is four to five minutes, including our jog back down the hill and some walking at the bottom."? 4-5 minutes total or 4-5 minutes plus the time it takes to get back to the start, which seems excessive?