2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 491 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

     

    We're supposed to drink out of them?

     

    Way to make us feel bad. Let's just get cal back in here so you three can laugh at all us plebeians 

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

      I'm going to keep shouting at keen until he writes this damn race report. Need to write it in the first week after otherwise you forget the funny details of the race!

       

      Flavio - Ha no, much more traditional this time, although my wife really likes the name May and August but I said we refuse to be those people!

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        JMac - congrats on #2.  Seems like very good timing season wise, I assume that isn't luck.

         

        Mikkey - Just confirming, because it's very hard to tell from your posts, do you have a Moose Mug...

         

        I had my session with Caden Shields today, who has already chatted about me with Andy Good, my new coach, even though my initial consult isn't until next week.  It seems like this is going to be a very good team to have around me.  Flavio will be pleased to know (and annoyed that his daily reminders took this long to stick...) that Caden found I need to add to my strength training significantly.  I'm starting with 3 new exercises that can be done at home with my dumbbells but he did say I might want to look into a gym soon - a new one just opened 2 mins from my house luckily.  He said my aerobic fitness is looking really good but my musculoskeletal fitness hasn't kept up.  He was actually pretty excited with the results of his initial tests because he said he can see plenty of room for improvement, if I put the work into strength training.  JMac will also be pleased to know he also said I should add some 5km and 10km races to my plans, and more frequent hill running.  He also wants a shorter marathon block - basically agreed that I probably peaked a month out and should shorten the marathon specific training by a month this time.  Caden has a 2:13 marathon and Andy has a 2:20 but they both have plenty of experience working with mortals.

         

        So the decision to move to a local full time coach and go to the Sports Clinic is looking like a good one.  I'll probably regret not doing it sooner but we live and learn.

        5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

        *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

        Upcoming Races:

        Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          Steve - I wish you could see the smile on my face as I read your post. This sounds so great for you! I think we all agreed that marathon block was too long, and I know Flavio is really happy with the strength training (reminding me I need to do my own). The 5k/10k makes sense too, I feel like almost everyone who runs a 5k/10k cycle before a marathon say it was totally worth it (my biggest mistake the last year of only doing marathon cycles).

           

          Are they having you do anything beyond leg strengthening?

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            Not yet, starting pretty slowly with swinging leg bridges, and calf raises and single leg squats with relatively light weights.  I haven't officially started with the new coach yet, so I'll be interested to see what sort of changes he makes.  The physio and coach will work together though so I expect what he said today about hill work and shorter races will be included.  I don't think I have time for a full 5km or 10km cycle before Christchurch but I'll look at a 5km park run in January and maybe the same 10km I did last year in late February.

             

            Overall it is very exciting to see where this can take me - I know I've made mistakes but the last few years should have given me a really good foundation.  As of this morning, 2022 is now my biggest mileage year with 3 weeks left.  Unless I significantly increase my weekly mileage I can't see it being beaten given I had 1 very long marathon block and 1 aborted halfway through when ChCh was cancelled.

             

            It's great having access to such a quality team relatively cheap.  I'm managing my own training until next Thursday so I might kick off with a mid length hill run tomorrow.  Interestingly, I got minor cramp when he was testing my strength and doing the swinging bridges which made him very happy - he said if we can replicate it in the gym, we're on the right track.

            5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

            *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

            Upcoming Races:

            Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

            flavio1980


            Intl. correspondent

              Steve - That was the most hopeful post I have seen from you ever. That makes me happy!
              I'm also happy to hear the theory of having a VW Golf engine in a VW Beetle body stands to reason, it's not a fruit of my imagination 😁.
              During my marathon I started to suffer really badly around km 33 when I had to let go of my running pack, and I managed to carry on until all my muscles cramped at the same time at km 37. So I'm thinking I need to somehow push my limits so that I start failing about 25 minutes later.
              Strength training will absolutely help you out, if anything, it will give you a mean kick at the end of the races. So long as you don't overdo it 💪
              It seems looking from the outside that you found an excellent team, which I have no doubt will bring you a lot of success running wise in the next year.

              One thing coaches are excellent for is finding that 20% you need to do to get 80% of the progress. And the best reason for that is that they can be objective while evaluating your performance, whereas you cannot.

              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              JMac11


              RIP Milkman

                 

                 

                So the decision to move to a local full time coach and go to the Sports Clinic is looking like a good one.  I'll probably regret not doing it sooner but we live and learn.

                 

                That’s okay: sometimes it takes a while to see what others are seeing from an outside perspective. As much crap as I gave you about your coach being a bit lost in his approach, it was out of a good spot because it felt like you were training so hard but not getting the results you should. I have a feeling you’re going to have a knockout 2023, maybe get some breakthroughs like we saw from keen this year.

                 

                And more importantly, Mikkey was right each time he said fire your coach 

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                 

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  So much to catch up on. I started getting sick before heading home from the race, and have spent large portions of my days since sleeping, but I thought I'd drop something I sourced out to a ghost writer. Somewhat more detail to come later.

                   

                  Preliminary CIM race report:

                   

                  So I got off the bus, did my warm up you all saw on Strava, got in a corral, and then ran what I thought I was supposed to run.

                   

                  I met a nice lady towards the end and while I thought she was helping me I was apparently helping her. I crossed the finish line and then everything hurt.

                   

                  Anyone have the cliff notes version?

                   

                  Krash I was wondering why you did so many laps inside. 7:10 pace is putting in the work. Trying to win another ultra?

                   

                  Steve I hope the coach works out for you. Keen and Ace BOTH went to coaches and got MUCH better. All the ones around here I'm not sure about. One just kinda closed up shop for some reason, and rumors/murmuring I heard was "he just paid fast runners to do their normal runs with people." There is a "run club" doing track workouts every Wednesday I couldn't ever make (time). I was also cheap or not really in a position to pay for coaching. Don't focus on the past. Focus on the future. "The rear view mirror is small, and the windshield is large for a reason."

                   

                  According to the calendar MONDAY is 18 weeks from Boston. I should PROBABLY do some type of speed work.

                   

                  EDIT # IDK: I should probably email/call Keen's coach and say "so he's 2 seconds faster than me on the same course with comparable weather. I need to beat him so hook me up with a training plan.

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 52.45

                  5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    RP - Thanks.  It definitely seems worth the money for me.  You've achieved brilliant results already though so whatever you're doing is working.  There are cheaper online options without quite as much one on one coaching.  It sounds like we have a potential 2023 CIM showdown over those 2 seconds...

                     

                    JMac - I think it was only a month out from the race that you guys started raising issues with what I was doing (apart from raising my soft goal).  To be fair to him, I've safely increased my mileage massively with 2020, 2021, 2022 all being record years and I finally broke through in the half.  I'd love to go to the next level again though.

                     

                    Flavio - Yep, that's a very good summation.  It sounds like you have similar issues, but also potential for large improvements.  The physio also said, which should be obvious, that the calf is on the receiving end of most of the impact of running so issues further up can be solved by strengthening the calves.

                     

                    Not sure if you're a football man...if you are, very hard luck this morning.

                    5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                    *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                    Upcoming Races:

                    Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                    Marky_Mark_17


                      No crazy trail race for me today, unfortunately.  Definitely picked up some bug, whether it was the Covid going around the office or a cold.  Still testing negative but the symptoms if you're vaccinated seem to be near-indistinguishable as of December 2022 anyways (sore throat, runny nose, headache, cough...).  I'll take the weekend off and reassess Monday.

                       

                      Bit of a bum note to end the racing year on but it's been a bit of a rollercoaster in that regard.  Some really enjoyable wins but way more DNS than I would ideally like.

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                      Up next: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        JMac for the JD2Q training plan how rigid are the miles? I looked at the 41-55 mile plan and he has 8M as the first workout and it’s 14 miles.  Later it gets to 17 miles which is longer than ANYTHING Hanson has.  I’m POSSIBLY doing this early morning, so I’m already concerned about ice/snow for workout days.  17 miles before work, PLUS a long run later in the week?????

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 52.45

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          RP - Thanks.  It definitely seems worth the money for me.  You've achieved brilliant results already though so whatever you're doing is working.  There are cheaper online options without quite as much one on one coaching.  It sounds like we have a potential 2023 CIM showdown over those 2 seconds...

                           

                           

                          Oh I’m very tempted to shove it down his throat ‘with authority’ however I might wait until 2024 when it’s more head to head.  

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 52.45

                          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                          CommanderKeen


                          Cobra Commander Keen

                            I'm still feeling like garbage and have been having difficulty crafting a proper RR, but here's a halfway attempt:

                            CIM Race Report

                             

                            The sun hardly ever shines in NorCal, in my experience. Race day was completely overcast and drizzly to start and had me (and many others) wearing a large trash bag as a makeshift poncho over my throw-away clothes. After the bus ride to Folsom, which seemed like it took much longer this year than last (likely due to a less chatty seat mate), I spent the final 90 minutes prior to the race people watching and making sure I was down to racing weight, plus a short warm-up. My right hamstring feels a bit tight/off during this, but as a plus this is about the time that it stops drizzling, too.

                             

                            The corrals at CIM are much nicer than those of most races I've done. Typically corrals have been an "enter from the back" sort of affair, but CIM also has side entries marked by anticipated race time/pace, making it pretty easy to get to where in the corral you think you should be on really short notice. I hopped into the corral a bit ahead of where the 3 hour pacers should have been with about 3 minutes to go before the start. It was also right about now that I realized I needed to pee. How is that possible? I had already made at least 3 trips to a port-o-john in the last half hour!

                             

                            The gun (ok, a horn. We are in California, after all) goes off and we're all on our way. Aside from that tightness in my hamstring (that certainly wasn't there the day before) things immediately feel better and smoother than they did last year. Most people crowd the inside of the first turn so I stayed more towards the middle, which gives me plenty of open road. Lots of spectators here, people lining the streets and using collapsible chairs in their driveways, complete with fire pits to help keep themselves warm. No notable race signs.

                             

                            This is where I'd love to pour out an excruciating amount of detail in a RP-like stream-of-consciousness manner, but I simply don't have it. I largely locked into a zone and just went with it. I had something of a little group to run with, a few people across the road who seemed to be moving around other runners at about the same rate I was, but not a solid pack. Somewhere around the first 5k I got a stitch in my left side for a minute or so, which was infuriating, but it resolved itself before I really had to adjust my stride or anything. Plenty of moments of "Oh, I recognize that" and "I'm feeling so much better now than I was last year".

                             

                            Gels about every 4.5-5 miles without issue. Maybe halfway through mile 7 there's a decent rolling uphill section for almost 2 miles that could be considered rude given the overall profile of the course. There's also a good uphill in the 11th mile during which I remember thinking "when does the downhill start?". Fun fact: Even at the top of this hill we've already dropped ~200' from the start.

                             

                            Right about midway I saw a guy changing shoes, from Alphaflys to some Hoka monstrosity. I'm not sure the logic there or how that was planned out, but it happened.

                             

                            Crossing the half I was certain that 2:55 or faster was out the window (something I figured due to the hamstring being weird), but I didn't care so much since I was feeling so much better than last year.

                             

                             

                            Mile 14 was really nice to get across since that's where my big side stitch started the year before. More continuing to pass people here and there.

                             

                            Mile 20 has a "breakthrough zone" with decorations of a wall on both sides of the road. This was one of the "big" milestones I remembered as being just before things really shut down for me last year.

                            My quads are starting to hurt here and I tell myself "This is where all those high mileage weeks pay off."

                             

                            Mile 21 - Zoomed by. "This is where I had to completely stop for the first time last year".

                             

                            The bridge just before mile 22. Things seemed SO very much more hopeful here than last trip across! At this point I'm picking out people ahead of me to pass. Not the people who are obviously slowing way down, but those it'll take some effort to get to.

                            I'm recognizing more and more things now. "I sat down on that curb last year". "I sat on that curb, too". "That's the fence I was leaning against, hoping to throw up, shivering, when a woman offered me a hoodie". Side note: I had kept this hoodie and used it as a throw-away before the race. I figured it would be good to give it back.

                             

                            Mile 23-ish. Around here I finally catch up to a woman I've been trying to reel in for a while now, who I was pretty sure was going to just run away from me, and she speeds up a bit to stick with me. This was Jenny from Florida, and we ended up running the entire rest of the race together.

                             

                            Mile 24. Jenny from Florida says "just a 2 mile tempo".

                            The quads hurt more and it is really tempting to walk, but I know they won't hurt less then and it'll hurt much worse physically when I start running again and even more emotionally/psychologically when I finish. The thought "no, THIS is where the high mileage weeks pay off" occurs to me.

                            Just after this we make a left-hand turn and pass the Del Taco where I threw up in the bushes last year. Screw you, Del Taco! I'm not stopping now!

                             

                            Mile 25. This is SUCH a long straightaway, when will it end? Yes, I know my usual route has two nearly 4-mile straights, but this last mile is ridiculous.

                            Watch for all the leaves. No way I'm slipping now. Jenny and I weave around people constantly here. It is SO much more fun to pass people at the end of a marathon than it is to be passed, wow!

                             

                            Mile 26. Finally. 400-ish meters to go. Calculating out how long this should take is well beyond me, I'll see the clock soon enough.

                            I'm looking around for DW but don't see her anywhere. She's actually on the outside of the next-to-last turn and gets a decent video of me and Jenny from Florida here. In reviewing the video later, 6:30/mi has never looked so slow.

                             

                            We make the last turn. "ooh, right up there is where that old guy went stiff-legged then headbutted the pavement". I don't recall my legs hurting at all. I cross both mats then pause my watch. There's no way I'm going to have a picture of me pausing my watch going across the line after this race. NOW I'm fully away of how much my legs hurt.

                             

                            I take a medal, get a solo picture taken, one with Jenny from Florida, then we part ways. DW and I somehow find each other outside of the finish area. I collect my drop bag, slam the protein drink I had put in there, and just want to go back to the hotel.

                            DW insists that I ring the BQ bell. I had forgotten about that. And also that wasn't "really" a goal by itself. But most of all there's not only a line but there are also about four steps to go up to get to it (not all at once) and I dread the thought.

                            DW gets a video of me ringing the bell (I botch it the first time and she tells me it was pathetic and to try again).

                             

                            That done, I (with help from DW) take off the super shoes and put on the Oofos for the slow shuffle back to the hotel. Even this is far better than last year.

                            5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                             

                            Upcoming Races:

                             

                            Heartland 50 - May 6

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              Loved every word, especially all references to last year's race. Congrats again!

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                                Great report Kyle, it's true watching footage of sub 3 finishers looking slow. Mind you most people are getting pretty ragged by the finish.

                                50+ PBs -  

                                5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                                10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                                Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                                " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                                Somewhere in between is about right "