Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 573 times)

AndyTN


Overweight per CDC BMI

    Andy - Off 30mpw I probably wouldn't run more than 13 or 14 if I felt really good, and if I threw in some HMe miles in there I probably wouldn't do more than 4 - maybe 5 if I was feeling frisky.

    So I'm just curious and not getting defensive, if I am increasing my mileage from averaging 30 mpw all summer and I feel very capable of completing 15-16 miles right now, why would you all recommend not going this high for some of my long runs the next 6-7 weeks? The 11-13 mile long runs over the summer were no problem and I didn't push further just because there was no motivation to run 16 miles in the heat. I know yesterday I stopped after 10.5 but the 10k PR a week prior was to blame.

     

    Either way, my biggest gains are going to come from the increased mileage each week rather than tacking on 2-3 extra miles for a few runs. I can stick to 12-13 mile runs with more speed work mixed in if everyone thinks that will yield more benefit for the Half instead of trying to do 16 just because it is more than 13.1 miles.

    Memphis / 38 male

    5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

    Mikkey


    Mmmm Bop

      Mikkey those Lunaracers felt so fast. I remember getting my first pair and couldn't believe how light they were.

      Apparently adidas have just released a 4oz racer that costs 400 pounds uk and is only good for a warmup and marathon 

       

      Yep, I have fond memories of the Lunaracers and my favourite was the 2nd version which was the most unpopular! 

      I haven’t heard of these £400 adidas shoes! 😳  

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      Mikkey


      Mmmm Bop

        So I'm just curious and not getting defensive, if I am increasing my mileage from averaging 30 mpw all summer and I feel very capable of completing 15-16 miles right now, why would you all recommend not going this high for some of my long runs the next 6-7 weeks? The 11-13 mile long runs over the summer were no problem and I didn't push further just because there was no motivation to run 16 miles in the heat. I know yesterday I stopped after 10.5 but the 10k PR a week prior was to blame.

         

        Either way, my biggest gains are going to come from the increased mileage each week rather than tacking on 2-3 extra miles for a few runs. I can stick to 12-13 mile runs with more speed work mixed in if everyone thinks that will yield more benefit for the Half instead of trying to do 16 just because it is more than 13.1 miles.

         

        It’s very easy to up the mileage/long runs…if you’re prepared to slow the pace down.

         

        Imo running 100 easy miles is not as hard as running 70 miles with 2 workouts….AND it works with 10ks. 👍

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        Marky_Mark_17


          Dave - it's your race, and your PR, so own it.

           

          I'm of the same mindset as you. None of us are pros. If you know you went out there and ran a damn good race, which you obviously did, then call it your PR if you want.

           

          And man, that tunnel sounds like fun! Although, it would annoy me having to carry a head torch or lamp just for that one relatively short section of the race.

           

          Mikkey - I've got a pair of VF3's which I've raced in once.  In my opinion they are a little firmer than the 2's and it did feel like I had to work my stride a little harder in them.  That was only one race though and the conditions on the day weren't great.  They're still just as fast IMO.

           

          Andy - personally I do think there are a lot of benefits in going up to 16 miles for a long run which is beyond HM distance.  Aside from just the time on feet and aerobic benefits, mentally there is something quite helpful about knowing you don't have to run that far on race day.  I suspect Keen's comment is coming from the length of that run relative to your weekly mileage, rather than the absolute 16 miles.

           

          Flavio - very envious of you getting to watch Diamond League! Nice!

           

          Keen - I'm surprised / amazed you got close enough to spot a tarantula on that run.

           

          RP - THAT ELEVATION GAIN! I was tossing up a trail event in summer that runs from one skifield to another skifield... you may have just inspired me to pull the trigger.

           

          Steve - may the weather continue to trend in the right direction! I had a few friends doing the Sydney Marathon last weekend and the temps there were rough... got up to 30C which would have been very challenging.

           

          Darkwave - sorry the time wasn't what you wanted, but at least it sounds like you got what you wanted from the race.

           

          I just checked my race log and it turns out my goal for the Devonport HM in a week and a half of running a course PB is... pretty soft.  I last ran 1:20:49 there and that was a few days after having food poisoning.  No I will not be trying to replicate those conditions lol.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

          Up next: Runway5, 4 May

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            So I'm just curious and not getting defensive, if I am increasing my mileage from averaging 30 mpw all summer and I feel very capable of completing 15-16 miles right now, why would you all recommend not going this high for some of my long runs the next 6-7 weeks? The 11-13 mile long runs over the summer were no problem and I didn't push further just because there was no motivation to run 16 miles in the heat. I know yesterday I stopped after 10.5 but the 10k PR a week prior was to blame.

             

            Either way, my biggest gains are going to come from the increased mileage each week rather than tacking on 2-3 extra miles for a few runs. I can stick to 12-13 mile runs with more speed work mixed in if everyone thinks that will yield more benefit for the Half instead of trying to do 16 just because it is more than 13.1 miles.

            "Your long run should be 30% or less of the total weekly distance."

            "The long run is the last place you should add mileage if you're attempting to increase your weekly total."

            These two things are what I adapted from marathon training. I think it matches the typical marathon training plan. FOR ME...It's a math rule I stick to because I heard it and usually stick to it. It's easy to remember 1/3 of 30 miles is 10. Most marathon training plans stick around this. I think there is some science saying adding more to every single run actually gets you more than just adding to one run. I'm also typically tired after a 16 mile long run, they take over 2 hours and it's sort of annoying to come up with a new loop/course/run I haven't done a bunch of times already.

             

            Also, if you're doing 13 mile runs now, and jump it to 16 you've only done another 3 miles. Great when you're trying to build mileage. 10% increase. If you add 2 miles onto every weekly run you've added 10 more miles. Roughly 20 minutes more of running a day gets you closer to 40 miles without touching your long run. Again, math. Plus "easier" than tacking on 30 minutes to a long run. Bonk on a long run like cal had last week and you're REALLY in for a long day.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              Andy - rule of thumb is for the LR to not exceed 25-30% of weekly mileage. The idea is that it will put extra strain on you, and you won't be able to sufficiently recover in time for the next run or workout. Most of the comments are probably based on this. It's just a guideline, and there are other factors such as the amount of speedwork you're doing. If you want to run 16, it's not going to kill you. Not sure if you ever said what kind of mileage you're getting up to, so I don't know what that % would work out to. Just that if it's 50%, that's not ideal. Full disclosure: for my first marathon (2012), I did a 20 mile run with a total of 34 for that week. I had a horrific trainwreck of race, although it was not because of that one week.

              Dave

              CommanderKeen


              Cobra Commander Keen

                 

                 

                I use hobbyjogger to describe anyone who doesn’t do it for a living. Which is all of us AFAIK.

                 

                 

                That's fair enough although alot of hobby joggers have coaches, run 70 plus miles per week etc and wear 1 inch split seam shorts 

                 

                 

                Hey, I resemble that remark! I'm just glad you didn't all out half tights, though.

                 

                 

                Mikkey those Lunaracers felt so fast. I remember getting my first pair and couldn't believe how light they were.

                Apparently adidas have just released a 4oz racer that costs 400 pounds uk and is only good for a warmup and marathon 

                 

                I'm pretty sure those are only "on the market" to get around the rules on gear having to be available to the public to be record legal, and they're not counting on many people actually buying them.

                 

                Andy - Running 15-16 miles off 30mpw is just a huge amount of weekly volume in a single run - it doesn't leave much room for anything else, as RP and Dave mentioned. I'd suggest running close to 55mpw before getting a 16 mile LR. Echoing others as well, increasing your other runs by a mile or two would probably do much more good in the long run.


                Mark - The tarantula was walking right down the middle of the road, it would have been difficult to miss. I do wish I could see them more, but they just aren't as common as they used to be.


                Mikkey - I'd agree that 100 easy miles is easier than 70 miles with 2 workouts. But 100 miles with 2 or 3 workouts is a different story altogether...

                5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                 

                Upcoming Races:

                 

                OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

                 

                   

                  Mikkey - I'd agree that 100 easy miles is easier than 70 miles with 2 workouts.

                   

                  I’ve only done 100 twice. But I’d say the 70 w/workouts is tougher physically, the 100 easy is tougher mentally.

                  Dave

                  mmerkle


                    Dave Your splits were every bit as consistent as mine. Great race. Also, in my opinion, if the course is a certified Boston Qualifier and the shoes you wear are legal, meaning the stack height isn't too high and there aren't too many carbon plates, then it counts as a PR. It doesn't break the "official" rules.

                     

                    Commander/RP On the off chance I get into Boston I'll try to break 2:50 there. But a record number of people applied so most likely I'm returning to Salisbury for the sub 2:50 attempt. I'll think about NYC. In the meanitme, I'm torn between going through with the JFK 50 and doing a 10k-half focused season. I'm leaning towards the latter since I want that sub 2:50 and I'd like to keep getting faster. I think a sub 17 5k is also in the cards for 2024.

                     

                    Mikkey I've still never used cheater shoes!

                     

                    Dw It sounds like you executed well given the warm weather. I wouldn't sweat the time too much.

                     

                    Andy What RP said. You don't want to put too much emphasis on the length of the LR. Higher weekly mileage is going to make you stronger. With all due respect 30 mpw is a bit low for a half marathon. Being consistently in the 40s or 50s will pay dividends. My longest LR before the marathon PR I just ran was "only" 19 miles / 2:20. But I averaged 70 miles a week for 4 weeks which I had never done before.

                    CalBears


                       

                      I’ll be a fentanyl addict by the time I get the greyhound from San Fransisco up to Sacramento….so I’ll be making it easy for you. 

                       

                      Just a few weeks ago you were stating that your win is a done deal ! Now you are backing off? I thought British keep their word? And they are tough - tough to even run New York marathon! 

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        Mmerkle the first 5 miles of Boston kind of suck. Having PR’d there I wouldn’t do it again. Even the first TWO miles were ‘nuts to butts’ running on a two lane road and I was corral 4 or 5. 
                        My personal advice if you’re going to run bBoston is to drop back one entire bib color (White?) and get into the front of corral 1. You’ll have a gap between you and the wave ahead of you according to my friend who started there.  This is what I’d do if I wanted a better experience. Maybe you’d have more space to move around people EARLIER than the lake you see on the right hand side.

                         

                         

                        oh yeah…when you see the banner overhead saying something about Heartbreak Hill, there is a big downhill after.  Don’t run it too fast. Heartbreak Hill is just after it.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 53.37 

                        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                        AndyTN


                        Overweight per CDC BMI

                          My focus the next several weeks is increasing mileage more than just 1 big run per week. So how about a compromise? I will focus on the weekly mileage with long runs at 12-13 miles and assuming I am feeling good, do a single 15-16 mile run 2 weeks before the Half?

                           

                          I am not dismissing any of the coaching/recommendations of what will truly lead to running success at the long distances. I know the number one prescription is going to be "you need to increase your mpw to 50-60" but I just don't have the time to do that consistently. I got up at 3:30 this morning and did 7 miles before the kids woke up. I helped them get ready for school, did math homework with the older one, and went to work. Got off a work call at 4:45, had to pick up the younger one, fed them dinner, and then off to XC practice at 6 where I did 3.5 miles. It is now 7:45 and I'm having to study with my son for the test he screwed up which the teacher is allowing him to retake.

                           

                          Sure, I did 10.5 miles today and I'm not even tired but this is not sustainable. I'm not making excuses or wanting sympathy, its just that I'm like a house renovation with major budget constraints. It was actually easier when they were younger because there were no sports or homework and I could get in miles pushing them in the stroller, which they would fall asleep after 20 minutes.

                           

                          Anyway, crazy dad rant is over 😵‍💫

                          Memphis / 38 male

                          5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Andy - I feel ya. My wife does a bit more of the domestic load in our house, and I generally leave home early to avoid the traffic and run straight before work, or else I'd be in very much the same boat as you.  During the time I'm awake, pretty much every minute is spent on family, work or running.  Your kids will grow up but running's always gonna be there!

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

                            Up next: Runway5, 4 May

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              My focus the next several weeks is increasing mileage more than just 1 big run per week. So how about a compromise? I will focus on the weekly mileage with long runs at 12-13 miles and assuming I am feeling good, do a single 15-16 mile run 2 weeks before the Half?

                               

                               

                               

                              Well, you don't need our permission. If you want to do it, do it, and I'm pretty sure it won't break you. It may not help you either, but if it gives you more confidence, then that has value. Or if just the accomplishment of running 16 miles makes you feel good, there's nothing wrong with that.

                              Dave

                              flavio80


                              Intl. correspondent

                                DW - Thanks for the race report. It's interesting you had trouble opening the Maurten, as they already come pre-torn.
                                I see the Chicago marathon is only 2 weeks away, here's hoping you can have a strong showing there!

                                 

                                Dave - I'd wager that tunnel requires a ton of mental strength.

                                 

                                Keen - What's the plan for the half on Oct 7th ? I'd reckon a PR attack is in the plans ?

                                 

                                Piwi - You'd think by now Henrik would have moved to the roads. It's so tough watching him go through the olympic preparation with a toe injury running with pain all the time.
                                That shot of him taking an anaesthetic injection just so he could race the semifinal got me.
                                He then proceeded to have 2 surgeries, one in the foot and another on the hamstring. It makes you think about all that these elites go through.
                                Anyway, it's nice to see you around, though I have a feeling we might soon lose you to the surf 🏄‍♀️😁

                                 

                                Andy - As others have said, you stand to gain a lot more from increasing the weekly runs by 1 mile than running longer long runs.
                                It's a risk versus gain equation, as you try to run longer long runs you're increasing the risk of injury.
                                Regardless, I'd absolutely not tack 6 miles at HM pace on that long run. Go with the Hanson's formula, a Thursday tempo at HMP working from 3 miles all the way to 5 miles 10 days out from your race. And keep that long run easy.

                                Anyway, like Dave said, you are the master of you life, you know yourself much better so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.


                                Re: the time constraints, aren't those largely due to your decisions in life?
                                The same kids who put a strain on your schedule also bring you the joy in your life, so I'd assume it's a fair trade off ?
                                Think of it like this: Would you rather have no kids and have all that extra time? I bet you wouldn't 😎

                                 

                                me - My plantar fasciitis is getting worse, sigh!. It's now bothering me when I'm not running. I'm doing my best to stretch/foam roll calves, quads, top of the foot, inner side of calves, adductors, piriformis. Hopefully it works

                                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                                Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race

                                Tool to generate Strava weekly