Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 574 times)

Marky_Mark_17


     

    Mark - Good news that the cold is going away, I swear a few years back it seemed like you were immune to colds, I guess old age is catching up to you?

     

     

    Good lord no.  I've always been susceptible to them.   Sometimes they morph into sinus infections and drag on a couple weeks.  I had a 5 month healthy stretch this time which lasted through most of winter and all of spring which was actually pretty good by my standards.  In the past I was often able to run through them, but these days I generally need to take a day or two off and then stick to easy running until things get back to normal.

     

    Piwi - Wellington? Must be a very good reason for her to move there.

    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    * Net downhill course

    Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

    Up next: Still working on that...

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      Fishy maybe a wedding ring tattoo would be harder to lose 

       

      Mark Wellington is better than Auckland surely 

      55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

      Somewhere in between is about right "      

       

         

        Mark Wellington is better than Auckland surely 

         

        One good thing about Auckland is that it's always top of the list when filling out your address online. I always have to scroll for hours to get Wellington...Sad

        50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:24:24 (June '23 Road Race) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Local Road Champs) - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22) - Perish Run 3:17:42

        2024 Goals: Road/Track 10km Sub 38:00 - 5km Sub 18:30

         

         

          Hash it would have been nice to catch up with you and Watson for a run but it was a rushed trip. I am going early tomorrow from Taranaki St but 6-7am then driving home.

          55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

          Somewhere in between is about right "      

           

          shouldbedeleted


            MT - Ugh sorry to hear. What part of the calf is hurting? Is it inside near the knee, outside near the knee, down near the soles muscle ?
            What has the physiotherapist said about it this time? Does foam rolling alleviate it any ?

            Darkwave uses pool running a lot, I guess that could help if there's any near by?
            Re: diets, here's what I've learned from years of trial and error:
            - Only do what you can maintain forever. If it's something that you can only hold for a few months, then it's not worth it.
            - Your body needs a lot of nutrients to heal, a restrictive diet could easily delay your recovery by months if it does not cover all of your needs.

             

            Rune - Hey, it's good to see you around, and I'm happy to hear you were able to get around that nasty hamstring injury.

             

            DK - I'm happy to hear you got the rush of running fast, even if it was short lived!
            Whatever I had that started about 2 weeks before the marathon and lasted through the race now seems to be gone (excellent timing though 😡)

             

            Mark - Ah, that must be it then, I guess I remembered that you could run through those colds.

             

            Running form - I subscribe to a certain school of thought when it comes to running form. It all started when I hired a running coach back in 2019 for the first time ever and asked him about running form because I thought bad running form was what was holding me back.

            This week I found a reddit thread about the subject and one redditor wrote what I think in way better terms than I could ever write:

            Here's the full link, but I'll post the contents below because ain't nobody got no time to be clicking links:

            https://old.reddit.com/r/AdvancedRunning/comments/18imrvi/tips_and_discussion_on_how_to_activate_glutes/kdej1fv/

             

            “This comes up all the time and a ton of psuedo-science and "my trainer said" gets thrown around - I don't begrudge people the woo-woo on this one because there is a lot of really weird information floating around ("glute activation" remains one the most puzzling terms I've ever heard, you can't stand up with activating your glutes, how people expect that they are running with "inactive glutes" is so so strange to me)

            "Running with your glutes" is not a thing - you run with all you leg muscles, if you weren't you would not succeed in taking even one step. The issues which drive poor form are always one of five things

            1. ⁠Weakness in a specific muscle or muscle group causing compensation from other muscle groups.
            2. ⁠Incomplete range of motion limiting the athletes ability to complete the full motion intended.
            3. ⁠Poor coordination of the muscles during the motion.
            4. ⁠Structural issues in the body (i.e. legs of substantially different length, joint angles like knock knees, things like that)
            5. ⁠Compensation for injury

            The first 3 can be fixed but you need to understand which issue you have. The fourth & fifth you need to see a doctor about.

            If you are suffering from weakness in a specific muscle group the best activity to resolve it is always going to be compound lifts. For the posterior chain, that is barbell back squats, romanian deadlifts, weighted thrusts etc. This builds strength in the muscle group rapidly.

            For incomplete range of motion you're talking about issues with hip mobility - the Myrtle Routine is the best exercise to improve RoM in the hips.

            For poor coordination of the muscles during motion the answer is maximal effort sprints/hill sprints done for short durations (10-12 seconds) with full recovery 3x a week. These should be part of every runners plan (although in the reduced form as strides once basic competency is achieved) as neuromuscular improvements from them continue accruing as you continue performing them over years.

            If you don't know which issue you're suffering from, do all 3. Plyometrics (high knees, butt kicks, skips, grapevines etc.) which exaggerate motions used during running can also address non-specific issues (they work by improving all 3 of those factors to lesser degrees than the specific work).

            This is how runners need to build form. You will never succeed at improving your running form by focusing on a cue while doing normal running - it is mentally exhausting and as soon as you stop focusing on the cue your body will revert to running the way you did before because you did not address the underlying issue which was causing you to run incorrectly. Until those underlying issues are addressed form will suffer.”

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

               

              One good thing about Auckland is that it's always top of the list when filling out your address online. I always have to scroll for hours to get Wellington...Sad

               

              When I lived in Washington DC it would be doubly frustrating because sometimes it would be listed as "Washington" and sometimes as "District of Columbia" so I'd have to scroll to D and then possibly to W.

               

              Jumping back a few pages to discuss CIM - it seems to me that the race has changed.   What really set it apart before was how it was a race for runners - nice touches like tons of bathrooms at the start, heated busses to stay in until shortly before the start, easy bag check, etc.  All the stuff that was helpful if your goal was to run fast.

               

              With the high entry fees, no-bag-check-at-the-start, and fancy backpacks at the finish, it really seems to have gone the other way - becoming more like the Rock 'n' Roll races.  And I can't help but think that something has been lost.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                Darkwave it has changed. It will require more people to run it to see how much more it can change.   The fans still make it worth it. Maybe they’re focusing on the relay portion of it more. ‘Those people’ get separate medals and finisher awards. I don’t know if they get backpacks and jackets.

                 

                training question:

                I did a workout yesterday and actually don’t know if I understand the purpose. I just did it because I have a 5k in targeting in March. Same one as always and the one I PR’d while not having my bib last year.  I didn’t design this workout. It’s from the Jack Daniels 40-50 mile week 5k training plan. 

                workout was 4x200m + 2 (5 min @ Threshold w/ 1 min jog) + 4x 200m. 15 minute warm up and cool down. The 200s I did in 42 seconds. The threshold run I did about 1,200m (6:38/mi pace). I picked the Threshold pace from the 1.5 mile runs for physical testing I’ve done.  It is a little faster, and those runs aren’t impossible but I’m working hard. Maybe comfortable hard but I’m only doing it once. 

                what is the point of this workout? My brain said anaerobic power and threshold is to build up lactic acid tolerance/clearing ability.  Garmin said it was VO2 max and all aerobic.  Yeah, I know I shouldn’t trust Garmin’s coaching. I do kinda. Jack Daniels says this is R pace which should be anaerobic power.  This makes sense because of the longer rest for 200s then the short rest for the threshold run. 

                the workout didn’t feel impossible.  I had to keep backing off the threshold pace because I was going too fast.  I didn’t get the feeling of it being too hard. Maybe it was just a great day and my body was putting more brain power into how cold I felt in 45 degrees.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 53.37 

                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                wcrunner2


                Are we there, yet?

                  RP: I think a lot of that is inconsistency in terminology. My experience with Garmin says it has to be close to an all out sprint for Garmin to call it anything other than aerobic. While R pace is hard, usually about mile race pace, it is not anaerobic. I'd judge the first set of 200s is to push you up to or over your LT, then the meat of the workout is building LT, ending with the second set of 200s for VO2Max. It also encourages you to learn to run relaxed and fast when tired.  Overall that is an LT workout.

                   2024 Races:

                        03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                        05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                        06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                        10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                   

                   

                       

                  DavePNW


                     

                    This is how runners need to build form. You will never succeed at improving your running form by focusing on a cue while doing normal running - it is mentally exhausting and as soon as you stop focusing on the cue your body will revert to running the way you did before because you did not address the underlying issue which was causing you to run incorrectly. Until those underlying issues are addressed form will suffer.”

                     

                    I have never paid any attention to running form, but this is the first thing I’ve read that makes sense. Unfortunately I’m too lazy to do any of those things. My form will be whatever it is.

                    Dave

                    DavePNW


                       

                      When I lived in Washington DC it would be doubly frustrating because sometimes it would be listed as "Washington" and sometimes as "District of Columbia" so I'd have to scroll to D and then possibly to W.

                       

                      Jumping back a few pages to discuss CIM - it seems to me that the race has changed.   What really set it apart before was how it was a race for runners - nice touches like tons of bathrooms at the start, heated busses to stay in until shortly before the start, easy bag check, etc.  All the stuff that was helpful if your goal was to run fast.

                       

                       

                      Well I know I’ll always be scrolling all the way down to that W, but it’s still aggravating!

                       

                      Yes CIM does have a LOT of bathrooms, but very poorly arranged! All in a single-file line stretching out to infinity, away from the starting corrals. When it’s approaching start time, you have to make the call as to how far you walk—shorter walk for longer lines, or longer walk for shorter lines. I had a point about 20 min before the start when I felt like I should go once more, but decided I didn’t have time and it would probably be fine. It wasn’t—I ended up having to stop to pee during the race, my only time ever, which cost me a PR.

                      Dave

                      Mikkey


                      Mmmm Bop

                         

                         

                        My wedding ring came off in the surf many years ago but still married 31 years later so I guess it didn't matter 

                         

                         

                         

                        My wife gave me 2 identical wedding rings when we married as these things can happen! 

                         

                        Luckily I still have both of them!

                         

                        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                        mmerkle


                           

                          training question:

                          I did a workout yesterday and actually don’t know if I understand the purpose. I just did it because I have a 5k in targeting in March. Same one as always and the one I PR’d while not having my bib last year.  I didn’t design this workout. It’s from the Jack Daniels 40-50 mile week 5k training plan. 

                          workout was 4x200m + 2 (5 min @ Threshold w/ 1 min jog) + 4x 200m. 15 minute warm up and cool down. The 200s I did in 42 seconds. The threshold run I did about 1,200m (6:38/mi pace). I picked the Threshold pace from the 1.5 mile runs for physical testing I’ve done.  It is a little faster, and those runs aren’t impossible but I’m working hard. Maybe comfortable hard but I’m only doing it once. 

                          what is the point of this workout? My brain said anaerobic power and threshold is to build up lactic acid tolerance/clearing ability.  Garmin said it was VO2 max and all aerobic.  Yeah, I know I shouldn’t trust Garmin’s coaching. I do kinda. Jack Daniels says this is R pace which should be anaerobic power.  This makes sense because of the longer rest for 200s then the short rest for the threshold run. 

                          the workout didn’t feel impossible.  I had to keep backing off the threshold pace because I was going too fast.  I didn’t get the feeling of it being too hard. Maybe it was just a great day and my body was putting more brain power into how cold I felt in 45 degrees.

                          If I had to guess, I would say the purpose of this workout is leg speed. You have a total of 8 200s (what was the rest between the 200s?) and only 10 total minutes of tempo work. Most tempo focused sessions feature at least 20 minutes total. I know Jack Daniels has mentioned that he noticed many athletes experiencing leg speed gains from tempo work. So, that's my vote.

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Mark Wellington is better than Auckland surely 

                             

                            People seem to either love Wellington, or they don't.  I am in the second category.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                            Up next: Still working on that...

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              OK, so Athletics NZ seems to going all in on the 'fast courses' for events next year.

                               

                              First, there's a new NZ 5km road champs, which will be hosted within the Runway5 event at Rotorua Marathon.  They're running it at night, under lights, and it could be pretty good fun.

                               

                              Second, Road Relays are going to be on the Taupo Motorsport racetrack.  Could be a very fun set-up for relays I would think.

                               

                              Third, National 10km Champs are going to be hosted in the Timaru10 event, which is on (another) race track in Timaru.

                               

                              IDK I had kind of lost interest in the national champs events but some of these could be kinda fun.  I skipped on my club registration this year and the club I used to run with has kinda folded in terms of Masters entries, so I might be on the lookout again.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                              Up next: Still working on that...

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              runethechamp


                                RP - I would view this workout as a kind of early program reps session (8x200), but with the threshold work mixed in. The threshold session isn't that long, but you go into it with some muscular fatigue. Same with the last 4 200s, you now go into those with the legs having endured some threshold work. If I remember correctly, JD is a fan of doing reps or strides after threshold work, just so you get the added stimuli of running fast on (somewhat) tired legs.

                                5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                                 

                                Getting back into it