Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
MT - I hope that calf continues to heal well. Your 5k and mile goals look out of whack for me. Running sub 5:20 I'd expect a person to run 18 flat or better for 5k.
Keen - That's just a function of being conservative and whether I will do 5k training or mile training. A mile doesn't require any mileage and it plays to my natural ability. If I back myself into a corner and put down too fast a 5k, I will probably push my calf too much/soon and reinjure it. I have been giving some thought to going all in on some shorter races and then doing a marathon if I'm healthy, rather than targeting the marathon directly.
Does it make sense to work towards an ~18Min 5k and then ~37:30 10K and then bump the mileage and the long run once I'm already fit? I definitely feel like all the weight training is going to help almost immediately with the running speed once I get going again.
Are we there, yet?
It makes more sense to bump the mileage first. Not only will it greatly benefit you for the 5K and 10K, it should have a noticeable effect on your mile as well. It needn't be marathon type mileage and long runs, but 40 mpw with long runs of as much as 10 miles would not be unreasonable.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Hello, and happy holiday season to all!
I'm just sitting here, reflecting a bit as I look forward to the coming year... next month I will turn 58 years old. Damn.
But here is the good news:
1) my right foot was 'fixed' in February
2) I have been running pretty consistently since June
3) I am starting an aggressive 14 week PT program next week to get past some lower back/hip issues
4) my weight is currently in the upper 170s, down from just over 200 before the Feb foot surgery
5) I finally bought a treadmill and setup a workout area with a wall-mounted TV so I have no excuses over the winter
Even though I have been restarting my training, and failing, over and over again for the past 7 years, I have every reason to believe that the hardest part is now behind me. If all goes according to plan, I should be pretty much pain-free and in decent running shape by the end of March, at which time I hope to be able to target a fall marathon. Since I haven't run a marathon in over 7 years I'll be happy just to make it to the start line healthy, and the finish line happy. But it's really still too early to be thinking about that. For now, I just need to keep putting in the miles.
I am excited for the coming year, and Fishy's new 2024 thread!
Now, time to go put in a few miles!
be curious; not judgmental
I was running mid 40s miles per week before this calf thing. I meant just keep it like 35-45 and do some 5k races and then take it up to 55-60 for a marathon if I'm feeling good.
Problem Child
Keen - That's just a function of being conservative and whether I will do 5k training or mile training. A mile doesn't require any mileage and it plays to my natural ability. If I back myself into a corner and put down too fast a 5k, I will probably push my calf too much/soon and reinjure it. I have been giving some thought to going all in on some shorter races and then doing a marathon if I'm healthy, rather than targeting the marathon directly. Does it make sense to work towards an ~18Min 5k and then ~37:30 10K and then bump the mileage and the long run once I'm already fit? I definitely feel like all the weight training is going to help almost immediately with the running speed once I get going again.
As someone currently training for a Sub-18 5k (is this event the correct forum to discuss this?) I'm going with a base of 35-40 miles and adding speed work. I could make 50 mile weeks happen if I'd stop being lazy on weekends. I would agree with wrunner and increase your weekly mileage before going into the 5k and 10k goals. Increasing mileage won't help your speed. It will help your aerobic system. Weight training will help with speed and also overall mileage. It's all stress on the body in different ways, and the weights plus increased weekly mileage from non-workout runs will feed each other. It is layers of a cake. Start with the good foundation and build from there. Build the base with weekly mileage from easy runs, and add layers of frosting and flavored filling with tempo/threshold/speed workouts.
Currently I'm doing the JD 40-50 mile week 5k training plan. It is 2 days of speed, and his book/instructions are to have a solid base BEFORE entering speed workouts.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I agree with this. I will add that I think (just based on my experience) training for the longer distance races will benefit your shorter race distance times more than training for shorter distance will benefit longer race distance times.
That said, it's really a question of goals. If your primary goal is to improve your mile time, then you should train accordingly (which should include a decent aerobic base as noted above). However, if your longer term goal is really the marathon, then I would begin to train at higher volumes with some targeted quality runs. That will not only give you a great aerobic base to support longer races, but will also improve your shorter distance race times.
I was never able to get my race times to line up to my potential. At my peak (right around 40 years old) I ran a 5:18 mile, 18:35 5k, and 2:59 marathon. The mile time only shows your potential. While you can improve your mile time in a matter of months with focused training, it can take years to dramatically improve at the marathon distance. And many, many months for 5k/10k...
So, the best way to improve race times across the board (again, just my opinion) is to train for longer distances and reap the benefits at the shorter distances with a little extra focus on the % of quality miles.
YMMV
Matt- Great to hear you're back on track! I like the plan and glad we have some more experienced (AKA Old) runners around here. Dave, WC and I have been representing the older AGs.
Keep an eye out for the new thread this weekend! I'll be keeping the same format as Keen's for the introduction.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Last week of 2023 in the books. Lots of hills, lots of humidity. 2023 ended up being my second biggest mileage year ever, so that was pretty good.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
I ran a parkrun in 19:26 for a PR! And age grade of 81%, finally cracking 80 for the first time! I thought I might have a 19:30 in me, so I was going to shoot for 6:15ish splits. I couldn’t get there—mile 1 and 2 were both at 6:21. But for mile 3, I managed to pull out a 6:11. Finished 3rd overall, but 1st in AG%.
Dave
Dave What a badass way to round out the year! Congrats.
Mr MattM Glad to hear it. That's a very positive attitude despite all of those setbacks. Hope to see you around more.
Mark What was the mileage/kilometerage total? Are you gonna do a year in review?
mt79 I agree with wcrunner here. Get the mileage up there first, so that your body can handle longer and more intense workouts. Strides and weights during the build should keep you from losing leg speed.
Mark - congrats on the mileage (kilometerage)! But you didn’t say how many!
Speed Surplus
Congrats! 19:26 is an objectively great time and 81% AG is BALLER.
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Quick update from me. Not much interesting in my weeklies, but I'll try posting them more consistently in next year's thread.
I've decided against attempting a 5k time trial before the end of the year because I can tell I'm not in sub-20 shape. So, the streak (10 years of running at least one sub-20 from 2013-2022) will die.
That said, the local run club is doing a "last mile, fast mile" type of meetup tomorrow, so I'll join for that. Haven't raced a mile for a few years, and not when I was at peak fitness, but I managed a 5:42 and a 5:15 1500 (converts to 5:37) a few years ago on moderate fitness. The best I've done overall was a 5:27 back in 2015, the same year that my best 5k was 19:03.
Not sure if I can break 6:00 right now, but I'll probably start out with 90-92 second laps and see if I can kick it in under 6:00.
Oh, and I haven't lost any weight yet 🤣
Doh! 4418km / 2745 miles. My best is 4437km.
Great stuff on the Parkrun time!
Awesome race! That's a great last mile.
Mark - Consistently solid running all year.
Mr MattM - Welcome back! Hope 2024 is a good health year.