Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 618 times)

mrakers - solid PR! 28 seconds off a 5k is huge.

Elizabeth - I had a couple of questions or comments regarding your race, mostly from my own experience (which might or might not be transferable): First, I was wondering if your 5x2000 workout the Monday before the race might have been too much too close to the race, but then I saw that I basically did the same workout with a 4x2000 at T-pace 3 days before my PR race I had a couple of years ago, so we can just forget about that .

Then I was wondering what shoes you used for your 3x3 miles at HM pace workout? Vaporflies, Adios, or something else? On that note I found it interesting that you chose to go with the Adios instead of the Vaporflies, which you had used for your previous PRs, especially if the main goal was to try to go sub-90. ANd who knows, the little extra beating your legs might have taken could have been enough to make a difference. 1 minute difference in a 90 minute race is just a hair more than 1%.

Lastly, I was wondering how much you have used the Maurten gel in hard workouts close to HM effort (or maybe in T-pace workouts). The reason I'm asking is that I am convinced some gels (Gu in particular for me) have a negative effect for me at those effort levels. At m-pace or slower it's all good but I now have several data points from both workouts and races that suggest it doesn't work well for me at the higher intensity levels.  I have no GI issues from the gel but I just lose that extra step. And the fade I experienced in a couple of races is very similar to what you had. Also, very interesting HR development for you (or maybe it's normal and my HR development is weird). In my last races it went like this, with the average being 168 in both:

151-163-163-165-165-167-167-169-169-172-173-175-178-181 (This was my PR race, with no gels),

151-162-163-165-166-167-169-170-171-173-172-173-175-180 (This was with a slight headwind after halfway where I also took a gel and the fade I talked about, with things starting to suck at mile 10, and I hated life at miles 11-13 )

Not a big difference but that last little step was missing in the second race, and I couldn't muster the power to keep my pace (and HR) up. This was also my first race in Adidas shoes btw...

In any case you held on really well for a great time at the end, even if it wasn't what you were hoping for. You might be right that the legs were not quite ready, and you have plenty of time to get them ready before Boston.

Flavio - I've decided that I just have to live with the fact that all shoes change over time, but I also have relatively normal feet, so it's not that much of an issue for me. Crossing my fingers you will find something that fits again.

After 3 days of running in a row this weekend (yes, very short distances but that's where I'm at right now), plus some strength on Saturday, I'm more sore than normal now. Luckily I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow so I can see if anything hurts during the hamstring load tests we do. I cross my fingers it doesn't.

 

 Then I was wondering what shoes you used for your 3x3 miles at HM pace workout? Vaporflies, Adios, or something else? On that note I found it interesting that you chose to go with the Adios instead of the Vaporflies, which you had used for your previous PRs, especially if the main goal was to try to go sub-90. ANd who knows, the little extra beating your legs might have taken could have been enough to make a difference. 1 minute difference in a 90 minute race is just a hair more than 1%.

 

Lastly, I was wondering how much you have used the Maurten gel in hard workouts close to HM effort (or maybe in T-pace workouts). The reason I'm asking is that I am convinced some gels (Gu in particular for me) have a negative effect for me at those effort levels. At m-pace or slower it's all good but I now have several data points from both workouts and races that suggest it doesn't work well for me at the higher intensity levels.  I have no GI issues from the gel but I just lose that extra step. And the fade I experienced in a couple of races is very similar to what you had. Also, very interesting HR development for you (or maybe it's normal and my HR development is weird). In my last races it went like this, with the average being 168 in both:

151-163-163-165-165-167-167-169-169-172-173-175-178-181 (This was my PR race, with no gels),

151-162-163-165-166-167-169-170-171-173-172-173-175-180 (This was with a slight headwind after halfway where I also took a gel and the fade I talked about, with things starting to suck at mile 10, and I hated life at miles 11-13 )

 

Not a big difference but that last little step was missing in the second race, and I couldn't muster the power to keep my pace (and HR) up. This was also my first race in Adidas shoes btw...

 

In any case you held on really well for a great time at the end, even if it wasn't what you were hoping for. You might be right that the legs were not quite ready, and you have plenty of time to get them ready before Boston.

 

 

I really love that you all are so engaging with me on my race. Thank you! It's really helpful to get a lot of perspectives because I would love to have ideas on things to do differently for next time. This is going to be long. Thanks for indulging me.

The shoes I wore for my 3 x 3 miles at HMP were the adidas Tempo 8 (discontinued after 2017). To me, they feel similar to the Adios but they are a little bit heavier. The reason I did not wear the Vaporflys was because when I ran CIM in them last December, I ended up with posterior tibialis tendonitis. That injury is not 100% recovered and I was worried that if I wore the Vaporflys, it would flare up during the race and I'd have to drop out. If I had been 100% recovered, I probably would have gone with the Vaporfly. I won't rule out the possibility that I could have run sub 1:30 in the Vaporfly, but it's impossible to know.

Here is my history with Maurten.

Columbus 2019: I did not use Maurten; only Generation UCAN pre-race. No other fuel. I felt like I needed a pick-me-up starting at mile 9 so I decided that I would try Maurten in the next half. I vomited.

Indianapolis 2019, three weeks later: I used one Maurten gel at mile 8, in addition to the Generation UCAN. I vomited.

CIM 2019: Generation UCAN pre-race, more UCAN at mile 11, Maurten at mile 17 and mile 21. No vomiting, but on the verge of dry-heaving.

Gel or no gel, I vomit at half marathon effort. And I ran faster in Indianapolis with the gel than I did in Columbus without it. If anything, I am thinking I need to drink less UCAN. In order to get a whole serving, I have to drink like 8-10 ounces of fluid, which is a lot to gulp down in the 30 minutes leading up to a race. I was thinking I might try doing a half serving of UCAN next time, but still using the gel. During a marathon, I tolerate UCAN very well, and (knock on wood) no GI issues from it. To fuel my workouts, I drink a serving of UCAN. I save the gels for races.

As for heart rate- yours is what I would expect to see. A steady climb. Not a decrease in at the end like you just stopped pushing! When I ran my Indianapolis PR my HR was 168,170. 171,171,171,172,171,172,173,175,172,168, and that was with the same exact fueling strategy. The last mile was less of a headwind, more of a downhill. Your data is really interesting. So many factors go into HR and I also wonder what impact the caffeine in the Maurten has.

Considering that my 10K pace 4 weeks ago was 7:00 and now that's my half marathon pace. . . maybe it will be my full marathon pace in 7 weeks! LOL. Thanks again.

I forgot a very important point that Rune made about gels - I am a strong believer that gels are physically useless for a half. Mark and I have gotten into this debate, but I believe for him, it's more of a mental pickup. Of course, that can be just as important as physical, but if you're having any sort of GI issues in a half marathon, you should not be taking gels, regardless if you throw up not taking them. If it's mental, you might as well just swig some sugar water in your mouth, which will have the same impact.

The other thing that will tell you whether it's aerobic or not is how your times compare with each other in a cycle. One race, no matter how you end, will not tell you the reason you failed. For example, if you run a 5K and fade badly at the end, that's not a sign of aerobic deficiency for runners like us (those who run 50+ MPW). Rather, it's most likely an oxygen deprivation issue that you pushed too fast early on. Therefore, the only way you can really tell is based upon how you run a 5K/10K and your marathon compared to this half time. That'll give you insight what you need to work on. I discovered this when I ran my 2:36 off of a 1:16 half. Even though that 1:16 was in a headwind in the 2nd half of the race and it was early-ish in my cycle, I still probably was only in 1:15 shape, which means I'm converting into HM+6, which is about as well as I can do. It also indicates that I probably need more speed in my training, which is why I tried to get more rep and Vo2 max work this cycle.

Wow a lot going on here!!  Will do my best to try and catch up.

James, Flavio, Zebano - nice weeks.

Brew - any chance you could come replace a cam belt on my wife's Toyota?  I'm tired of giving money to garages!

Rune - thanks! I caught Faith No More about 8 years ago - fantastic show.

Darkwave - that's super frustrating about the race but like others have said, you made a smart call.

Elizabeth - sorry the race didn't pan out how you were hoping.  The elite treatment sounds fun though!  Anyway a few thoughts...

Re HR, there's definitely something a little unusual there, and particularly given there was a hill late in the course which should've jacked the HR up.  My average HR in a half is generally in the low-170's for the entire race, but by the last km, it'll be in the low-180's - i.e. it starts around 150-160 and then progressively climbs during the race (typically quite sharply at the end).  Yours was basically flat from mile 2!!

Combined with the stomach challenges, it makes me wonder whether your body is getting enough fuel to the working muscles - i.e. you could run faster and go harder, but there's some energy system that's holding you back.  That's just speculation though.

The other possible explanation is that your watch HRM is not measuring right (Garmins sometimes get cadence-lock) but I wouldn't expect that to persist for an entire HM).

Re gels, I use them in a half, I've always thought that anything over around 1 hour of hard effort justifies putting some energy back in, but other runners I know are split on this for a HM - some like JMac don't believe they help, others do (like a local elite who is a 69-minute HM runner).  THe Maurten ones are definitely a very different consistency to other brands though.  In theory they should make it easier to digest but fuelling is a very individual thing and we all react differently.

Mrakers - well done on the PR!

Keen - I feel like you have had more than your quota of bad race-luck.  Bummer

Steve - you need to change your shoes more often.  My experience is totally in line with JMac's in terms of how long shoes last, and some brands even shorter (e.g. I only get around 400km out of Saucony Kinvara's).

Also, the Kayano is a great shoe but it's quite bulky - have you thought of trying something a little bit lighter?

Re heart rates - there's big variation between individuals.  I remember from Runners World, Roadkill Racing who was about a 1:15/2:38 half/full guy who never went above 165 heart rate.

Elizabeth - thanks for the info re the coach.

I was evaluating which coach to hire back in August last year. Some of the options were McMillan, but also the RunSmartProject (under Jack Daniels),

Luke Humphrey running and also David and Megan Roche from https://swaprunning.com/ .

I ended up going with Luke Humphrey mostly because I’m a Hansons fanboy (mmm bop dig dig dappy mmm bop).

Re the heart rate data, do you have small wrists?

My wife’s watch never got a proper read and her wrists are under 5 inches in circumference.

Her watch generally reads lower, but sometimes also higher.

Did you notice any inconsistency on your heart rate reads while doing workouts?

Maybe you could try out a heart rate chest strap?

Jmac - how’s the niggle? Is the injury prevention work helping? I have constant niggles on my left calf and both piriformis muscles + there's always something else bothering me but I somehow keep afloat with foam rolling and strength training.

Steve - 1500km oh my, that’s a lot even for a clunky shoe. I do have some shoes last 1100km though, always the more cushioned ones (Antra Torin, Altra Paradigm). The less cushioned shoes last 600 to 800km. I don't run every day on the same shoe though, I have 4 right now and I usually run with a different one each day so they have more time to rest I guess.

Gels - I have never took them during a half and then of course I don’t intend to take then anytime soon. This last half I barely took a few sips of water.

And I don’t have stomach issues either, I just don’t think they’re useful in such a fast race.

Music - so I decided to check whether there were any Rammstein concerts this year given that I'm now in Europe.

It turns out they're touring this year but obviously all their concerts are already sold out months in advance 

Keen - Your race seems easier to diagnose. It looks like you tried to keep the sub 3 pace on a very hilly course and hoped your mileage would carry you through. It'd odd cause if I remember correctly you were hitting the workouts well, weren't you?

 

Jmac - how’s the niggle? Is the injury prevention work helping? I have constant niggles on my left calf and both piriformis muscles + there's always something else bothering me but I somehow keep afloat with foam rolling and strength training.

Thanks for checking in Flavio. As with most injuries, it's been a roller coaster ride. Last week, my Thursday run was so miserable I really hated running. On Friday, I said I'd just shut it down if it felt like that, but then it didn't. It felt pretty good.

Saturday, back to the pain. Would have shut it down if I was running locally (was away for the weekend). But then Sunday and again yesterday, I felt almost no pain. However, woke up this morning with pain again 

This is how injuries, and honestly training, goes. You want steady improvement, but you can't expect it to be straight upward. You're going to run into bad days, whether it's pain from the injury or a botched workout. However, I want to make sure it's trending in the right direction, and I think it is. For me, the biggest way to tell that is that the surrounding calf muscle actually feels a lot stronger than it did a week ago. This is the biggest sign for me that it's okay to keep running, as long as the pain doesn't get worse. Of course, still evaluating on each run whether I need to stop for a few days. But at this point I'm getting increasingly worried about the Boston Marathon getting cancelled due to the coronavirus so I need to at least a half PR out of this cycle!

ETA: Flavio how are the Italians taking this outbreak in coronavirus?

Steve you can track shoe mileage on Strava. Just enter in your shoes under equipment. Heavier daily training shoes should last alot longer than super light racers. Some runners wear there shoes out quickly as they land heavy on one part of the shoe. Usually the midsole will just feel very flat and you know they are done. Did you get to any of that cricket? I see you are getting a new stadium.

Flavio ok I had to go measure my wrist to make sure I'm not a female  I have small bony wrists but closer to 7 inches.

I use the garmin 235 for the last year or so. I notice my heartrate fairly consistent in readings. I get the odd recovery run at 160 and tempo run at 130 so it still isn't perfect.

Jmac you have always been good at running through injury niggles. Looks like this may be the case again.

I see Sage Canaday came over here earlier in the year and ran the Tarawera ultra. I think he came in 5th.