Forums >Running 101>Training Advice / Running Slow?
Hello,
My training runs are now uploaded to see and am still very new to this so these are just some basic training questions. My goal was to just race 5K's races this year and unexpectedly lost my wife in February. Since March, based on advice I found here, I just started running more mileage very slowly (those runs are not listed). Tried to get some base mileage in and for the past few months I have done a long easy run Saturday 8 to 10 miles (trying to keep heart rate at below 150) Sunday 5 miles (again easy, below 150bpm) and 3 to 4 miles on Wednesday (easy / below 150bpm). Just started to do some intervals on the Wednesday run and my questions are that on my easy runs which are painfully slow (11:00 to 13:00 min miles) is it unusual that those times have not yet improved? Was hoping at some point that in the 150bpm and below that those times would have at least gone down a bit. And it is worth noting that running in the heat has absolutely affected some of the heart rate data. In the cooler temperatures I could maintain my pace with the lower heart rate but at some points now depending on the weather my heart rate was 15 to 20 beats higher and still going the slow pace.
If anyone can add some advice, input, suggestions or anything I would greatly appreciate it. Again training towards some 5K races later in the year and ran a 2 mile race in December with 7:04 mile average and a 5K in January with 7:54 mile average.
Thank You,
Jay
I lost my rama
Hi Jay. Very sorry to hear about your wife. I hope and wish the best for you. Getting into running and setting goals for yourself is an excellent start. I'll try to answer, but I have a couple questions to start. How did you get 150 bpm as your target HR for daily runs? Do you live in Texas (assuming from your username)? How many miles per week to you hope to build up to?
Heat and humidity will absolutely have an effect on your pace and HR, and often both simultaneously. It's easy to be discouraged by the drop in pace, but don't take that as a bad thing. Hot weather running will help you achieve your goals more than it will hurt you in the end when it finally turns cooler.
Judging from a 7:04 pace for 2 miles versus 7:54 pace for 3.1 miles, it's very clear aerobic development is needed, so running more miles at an easy effort is mostly what you need. Keep at it and build those easy miles, and I can easily see a 5K at that 7 min/mi pace and even faster. Body weight also plays an role, so if you have a few extra pounds it's good to try to shed them too. Good luck!
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I started running in November and was doing 1 mile to 1.5 mile runs at a fast pace and only about 4 miles a week. Thought that would be enough for a 5K training wise, but through this forum found out it was way too low.
I got the under 150 bpm because I tired doing the MAF low hear rate training which put me at 136 bpm but I seriously could not even slow jog at that pace, it was basically walking. I found 147 bpm to be the slowest rate that I could actually run at (albeit with slow mile times) but it was at least running, not walking. I think I am pretty much peaked at weekly mileage of about 18 to 20, but might from time to time add a Monday or Friday of 2 to 3 miles. I am 6'4" and around the time my wife died was anywhere between 232 and 238 lbs and still pretty lean. I originally lost about 15lbs due to stress and managed to get about 8 to 10 back and since I am now eating and sleeping regularly stopped weighing myself for the time being.
I am a big Cowboys fan but live in Natick Massachusetts.
I would ignore heart rate for a while and just run your easy runs based on perceived effort. I've personally never trained by heart rate but I know that everyone's max is different, so if you're using some formula like 180 minus age to calculate your aerobic range it could be way off.
If you ran a 5k at 7:54 pace in January then your easy pace is probably around a 10 minute mile.
Runners run
I agree with mikeymike to ignore HR for now with up to 20 miles per week. Just run, some at easy feel / pace, and every now and then turn it up a couple notches. Record HR for tracking purposes only. Also, without knowing your true Max HR, following a HR-based training is pretty useless. You need to do a test, or better yet, in your next 5K race, go as hard as you can, and then go harder. Add 5 bpm to your peak, and that's about as close to your MaxHR as you'll get.
Check out the Low HR forum for those who are familiar with MAF training, if you still want to go that route. I have trained by HR for the past few years, but I won't let HR guide my pace until I hit about 35 to 40 MPW. I lived in Providence, RI for a while, so weather will still make a difference in your neck of the woods. Also, I have a sister who's a Cowboy's fan, but I won't say what team I like.
For the heart rate I did not use any of the age formula, I used to race in cycling about 15 years ago and my max was 202 and my threshold pace was about 185. I could ride for 1 hour at that effort.
So even though not the same based on some of my hard running efforts I would estimate my max at around 195 to 197 but once I go and put some intervals in at the track will see what it is then.
As a side note I have no interest in the MAF training, just something I found on-line back in January but realize that is way above, as far as training goes, for what I am trying to do. However running mostly easy miles is something that I recently realized was hopefully going to be beneficial in the long term. I would otherwise likely have put in way to many hard runs by now. Building a good base and slowly integrating some harder workout is now the goal.
Also I just wanted to point out I posted about my wife's sudden passing a few weeks ago on a separate thread. She passed on February 3rd and my life has been absolutely horrible since that day. I was so close to quitting running all together and I can only speak on my experience, but it is the only thing that has kept me going to be honest. A few months ago I could never have thought I could post something about training, but here I am. Life continues on and the efforts and time I have put in training have been an invaluable part of my healing.
I have no idea what it's like to have gone through what you did, but I'm glad you're here now posting about running. I think we have a similar MaxHR - I use 195 as my Max for training purposes. Looking back into my logs, I'd run in the 160's and even 170's when running 10 to 30 miles per week. Another way to think about it is time and effort. If you're not spending much time running, it's fine to increase effort. But as you increase more time running, lower the effort. IMO - I don't think using HR is beneficial until you get up to 6+ hours of running time per week.
SMART Approach
I agree, don't go crazy about HR. You need more fitness, run more miles, do more aerobic cross training. You need another 6 months to improve aerobic base. You will bank all this fitness and times will improve. Do you lift weights? 235 lbs on 6 4 frame is typically not lean. Dropping 10 lbs will do wonders for pacing and better race times.
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Just to follow up I do work out with weights and have done so since I was in 7th grade, which I think would explain why the 232 lbs. at 6'4' was kind of a lean weight. I actually weighed myself at the gym and was 224lb on Sunday. My goal is just to do the best I can with the time available which is why I usually only run three days. I do gym workouts four days as well (Sat=chest/biceps, Sun=back/triceps, Tues=shoulders/calves, Thurs= legs). For the last few years these workouts are quick (about three sets per body part) and with very light weight & drop sets, basically just for overall maintenance.
This past Saturday I ran the furthest I have so far (12 miles) and did not look at my heart rate much at all during the run. Was very hot (about 88, ran between 12:00 pm & 2:00pm) and just ran a pace that was comfortable but not too fast (little above easy) and my average mile times did go down quite a bit into the 10 min mile but what was very surprising was the elevated level of my heart rate for this run. It was very high averaging 176 with a high of 192. The thing about this was there were stretches (about 7 miles on) where I was averaging in the 180bmp but was never winded or breathing hard at all, it felt like my normal effort level.
Now to compare I did some interval workouts yesterday (5:00pm about 75 degrees) and during the two mile stretches that I did this I was averaging about 175 bpm but running at a pace of between 6:15 & 6:51 miles times during the interval. I was having a hard time getting my heart rate over mid 180's and gasping for breath & struggling, so go figure.
I believe this is all due to heat and hopefully this Saturday's run will be a good benchmark as it looks to be forecast to be much cooler and possible cloudy and rainy. Going to try to do 14 miles and again am just going to run without looking at all at the hear rate data. This is all new to me so I appreciate any feedback or comments.
You are correct in that it's due to heat. On that 12 miler, even though you felt good, if you'd tried to push harder, you wouldn't last very long. Your heart and circulatory system prioritizes cooling the body above moving your muscles. Sounds like you're making good progress though. I still think you should just run by feel and measure HR to observe the trends for now. You will still see improvement even if not running at lower HR at this stage.
DC so sorry to hear about your loss. I lost my mom last March and running has been the only thing that has gotten me out of bed at times.
you are in a very exciting time in your running career. Watch as the fitness builds and you crush PR after PR. Nothing feels better. Good luck on the journey there’s nothing quite like it.
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