The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 423 times)

JamesD


JamesD

    Watson - Thanks.  Maybe I should try a little more next time.

    Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

    '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

       Whanganui Marathon (and Half) is also AIMS certified.  Although I don't know who wants to run a NZ marathon in December.

       

      And as Mark says, there are other courses that are definitely legit (e.g. the half at Wgtn Round the Bays), but not officially certified.

       

      Thanks to all the congratulations.

       

      Hash - congrats on the third place, on a short course!  I presume you have relatives in Invercargill?

       

      Watson - Not the full, but the Whanganui Half is my go-to THEORY race (THe End of Running Year - and yes, I just made that up). I've always slightly struggled with it, running a good 4-6 mins slower than my usual half pace. I put that down to mostly the warmer weather, however it could also be to do with the terrible nights of sleep I get on the in-laws' fold out bed (My better half's from Whangas, so we head up there a number of times throughout the year).

       

      And yeah, I have an elderly uncle who lives in Invercargill. Try to go down as much as I can so I can spend some time with him and see how he's doing, and always try to coincide that with a local event.

       

      Piwi - 17:30 is 2023's 5km goal!

       

      Darkwave - Yeah, I did think to myself "Sheesh, not sure I wanna do THAT course again!"

       

      Keen - Congrats on the rival-beating win. Always good to have friendly rivalry to keep the spirits up (and even better when you beat them!)

       

      Marco - What shoes did you use when running the XC?

      50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:28:11 (Sept '22 - Sandy Point Off-Road Half) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Wellington Road Champs); - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22); Track Mile 5:32 (2021)

      2022 Goals: Half Perish 4:00 pace - Road/Track 10km 3:45 pace - 5km 3:35 pace

      2022 Races: Whanganui 3 Bridges - Dec 11th

       

      Fredford66


      Running Musician

        I actually try to avoid caffeine in (and for 24 hours before) a race.  Given it's a bladder irritant and I have enough trouble running a half without making a stop, I'd rather do without it's benefits than deal with the down side.

         

        Yesterday's run was in 70º with high humidity.  Today's was 52º and windy.  That kind of variability is why I don't like to set September races as target or goal runs.  Today's pace run went very well.  10 with 7 at HM pace, targeting 8:20 and actually averaging 8:18.  That's my last long pace run before the 10/9 half, and it was a much-needed run for confidence reasons.

        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

        Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
        Marky_Mark_17


          OK, I think I'm actually ready to get back into it properly next week.  HR has still been a little high on my easy jogs but it's probably just lack of training.  I felt a lot better this morning even cruising up a big hill so after 2.5 weeks I think this thing might finally be behind me.

           

          6 weeks until Nelson Half so at least that gives me a solid block of training, particularly with a lot of volume earlier in the year behind me.

           

          Watson / Hash - in my "I just need to run a marathon... any marathon" saga in 2020, Whanganui was Plan E.  It never came to that, fortunately.  Four laps for a marathon would be tough.  I gotta say though, at this point one of my main motivations is trying out a bunch of new and different races so maybe the half there is one for next year.

           

          Fred - I never have coffee before a morning race.  I am not overly sensitive but never wanted to risk the need for a stop!

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

          Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            Watson - great race report and great race.  I do wonder if the lower mileage worked for you this time because you had done higher mileage in the past (another way of saying our training is not just one cycle, but everything that came before it).

             

            CK - I completely agree with you about the importance of training for flat if you are going to race flat.  Not so necessary for a shorter race, but essential for a full marathon.

             

             

             

            This is so foreign to me:  needing highways and major roads to hold races.  But then I realized New Jersey has 80% more people than New Zealand in less than 10% of the land area, which means we have a web of local roads the like of which probably doesn't exist in NZ, allowing us to hold races without needing major roads or highways.  Just goes to show how different things are.

             

            Could you two also be using different definitions of "major roads and highways"?

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            JamesD


            JamesD

              Some months ago, Caitlin (hope you're still lurking) mentioned Amby Burfoot's weekly newsletter, which I had enjoyed when it was part of the now-defunct Podium Runner site, so I signed up for it.  This week's edition reported on a study that claimed significant improvement in time trials after three-minute "ice massages" of calves five minutes before running.  Seemed odd to me, but here's what he wrote.  I clicked on the link to read the abstract but didn't want to buy the paper.

               

              Forget the post-race ice. Use it pre-race!
              Everyone knows about the post-exercise recovery theories built around cold water and ice. They’ve fallen a bit out of favor in recent years, but many still follow them. Now there’s a new kid on the block: ice massage before a race.

              In a hot-off-the-presses paper, Brazilian researchers report that runners ran a 4K time-trial 5.5% faster after ice massage than without ice. That’s a huge difference, with average final times of about 19:06 (ice) vs 20:12. 4K is almost exactly 2.5 miles, and weather was similar for both trials. The researchers believe ice produced this dramatic outcome through “a reduced exercise-induced pain perception.”

              Subjects were 14 college-age males who had been racing for at least 4 years and were training about 14 miles per week. They ran 4K as hard as they could on a standard 400-meter track once after receiving a light-pressure 3-minute ice massage of the calf muscles, and once after no massage (in randomized order). After the ice massage, the runners had 5 minutes to warm up for their 4K.

              It’s possible, of course, that ice massage enhanced performance as a placebo. However, the authors believe the improvement in their study was so great that it must have been more than that. This paper is the first to show that “ice massage locally applied” before a time-trial could have a dramatic positive effect. More at Research Quarterly for Exercise & Sport.

               

              (me again) I don't think I'm going to try this, for a couple of reasons.  First, it seems like icing my calves so soon before a race, apart from being logistically complicated, might make things too tight and lead to a muscle tear of some sort.  Second, I doubt that my calves by themselves (or the perception of pain in my calves?) are the limiting factor preventing me from a 5% improvement that all my other body parts could support - seems like if icing my calves would let me go that much faster (say a minute in a 5K), the extra stress would cause another injury, maybe in my hamstrings.  Also, the survey subjects being college-aged and training only 14 miles per week, even if they've also been racing for at least 4 years, might mean their results would be different from ours.  If anybody wants to be a guinea pig, I'd be interested to hear how it works.  In other words, I'm not going to risk an injury, but if you want to do so, go for it!

              Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

              '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

              JamesD


              JamesD

                I felt my right hamstring a little more often this week than last, but it wasn’t too bad.  It started hurting about a mile into Friday’s tempo run, but I backed off slightly and the discomfort went away after a while and I was able to pick the pace back up.  Monday’s longish run was slower than last week’s, but Wednesday’s run and Friday’s tempo were both a good bit faster than I’ve been doing recently, so that’s encouraging.  It seems like Wednesday & Thursday were the last two hot days of the year, if the forecasts are to be believed.

                 

                Flavio - Please put me down for the Mogadishu Mile 5K on October 1.  Let’s put 19:25 as an A goal even though it might be a stretch - that would tie my age-graded best, and it looks like I underestimated my fitness and/or sandbagged a little before my last two races.  B goal would be to break 20; that should be achievable unless I go out way too fast.

                 

                Sun - 25 minutes swimming

                Mon - 10.1 miles in park @ 8:32, temp 82/28, TDP 148

                Tues - 6.2 miles very slow treadmill (72 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins

                Weds - 6.5 in park @ 8:15, temp 92/33, TDP 152

                Thurs - 41 minutes swimming

                Fri - 6.8 in park incl. 3 @ 6:52

                Sat - 5.7 very slow treadmill (66 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins

                 

                Total - 35.3 miles

                YTD Average - 35.4 mpw



                Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                watsonc123


                  James - I would like to see other studies come up with similar conclusions re ice.  A few things to think about:

                  - Brazil is a hot climate, where overheating will often be an issue.  So did the ice help in reduce overheating, which wouldn't be much of an issue in cooler/milder climates?

                  - Did the ice help with the warm up?  Post the ice the blood may have rushed back meaning the calf was better warmed up, than on the non-ice day.  So possibly a better warm up on the non-ice day would help?  I realize this possibility clashes with the first.

                  - The 5km times were good, but nowhere near elite.

                  - College age, so maybe they don't generally race as hard as they should, so  the pain thing from ice might not work as well with more motivated runners who often go into the pain cave?

                  - p=0.03 which means there's a 3% that it's a co-incidence.  This makes the BIG assumption that all variables were accounted for, which they weren't.

                  - There are other ways of reducing the RPE such as hard workouts, racing regularly and stimulants (e.g. caffeine).

                   

                  My guess is that these are college age students who don't do hard training and don't race very often and are therefore overly sensitive to exercise stress.  So anything that reduces their RPE will work.  Of which hard training and racing regularly will reduce their RPE and would bring fitness gains meaning they're suddenly improved by much more than the study.

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                    Sorry, got busier this week… zebano i like xc races , they can be hard, slow sometimes, but fun Smile

                    hash I need to get shoes for those races, I run in my normal saucing ride , but it was a dry day Wink

                    I have spikes but I think I want to try a pair of xc shoes, maybe innovate… do you have any suggestions ?

                    PRs since re-started in 2013:

                    5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                    HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                     

                    Upcoming races:  

                    ???

                      Ok, I just finished my 25 miles this week Smile very slow, easy does it to avoid injuries (but I managed a couple of fast intervals, so I am happy about my week. .

                      ...Then I managed to find a streaming for the Berlin marathon and found Kipchoge and saw these guys running 10 K faster than anybody could have ever imagined... so I am stuck and watching it!

                       

                      I hope you all have a great Sunday

                      PRs since re-started in 2013:

                      5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                      HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                       

                      Upcoming races:  

                      ???

                      JamesD


                      JamesD

                         

                        - Did the ice help with the warm up?  Post the ice the blood may have rushed back meaning the calf was better warmed up, than on the non-ice day.  So possibly a better warm up on the non-ice day would help?  I realize this possibility clashes with the first.

                        - The 5km times were good, but nowhere near elite.

                         

                         

                        They weren't even 5K times, but 4K; I just figured that going from 20 minutes to 19 for that distance for them might be similar to me going from around 20 to around 19 for 5K (though I'm probably closer to my current ideal potential than they were, so dramatic improvements would be less likely).  That seems slow for college-age males who had been racing for at least 4 years, though given their weekly mileage, maybe it meant that they had casually run one 5K in each of four years.

                         

                        I wondered about the warmups too.  Between jogging & strides, I take about 25 minutes to warm up, and I try to finish 10 minutes or so before the start of the race.  They were only given 5 minutes to warm up between the ice massages and the start of their trials.

                        Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                        '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                        Fredford66


                        Running Musician

                          I ran a half today as a moderate-hard training run, and to check it off my list. My watch said it was 13.07. 

                          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                          Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
                          JamesD


                          JamesD

                            I ran a half today as a moderate-hard training run, and to check it off my list. My watch said it was 13.07. 

                             

                            And some people complain about New Zealand having short courses.

                            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                            '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                            Fredford66


                            Running Musician

                              I ran a half today as a moderate-hard training run, and to check it off my list. My watch said it was 13.07. 

                               

                              The guy just ahead of me ran through the finish line and past the people handing out medals because he wanted to get to 13.10 (he said his watch showed 13.08).  I didn't feel that need.

                              5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                              Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
                              Fredford66


                              Running Musician

                                Mini-report: I went out to the Franklin Lakes Scenic Half Marathon today.  Because September weather can be so variable, I don't set September races as goals, so I decided to check this one off my list by doing it as a supported training run.  I figured I'd aim for a 9:20 average pace, maybe 9:25 if the course was as hilly as advertised (it was).  The morning was cool and overcast.  The start was downhill.  The race was gun timed, so I lined up near the front (they told us we didn't have to squeeze through the area at the mat, so the start line was about 30' wide.  My pace for the first mile was 8:55.  I repeatedly tried to ease back to 9:20, but the weather and the excitement of being in a race kept that from happening.  After 5 miles, and some hills, my average pace was 9:03.  At this point I decided that not only would I stop trying to run a 9:20 pace, but I was now going to shoot for finishing in less than 2 hours.  I finished in 1:58:17 and was not even close to exhausted.  Another confidence building training run.  I'm really looking forward to the race in 2 weeks now.

                                 

                                My son ran the 5k, finishing 1st in his age group, 5th among males and 7th overall out of 72, winning a coffee/tea/hot chocolate mug.

                                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                                Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23