2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 165 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

    DW: I modified the table so you are down for Athens now. If it happens I may be there as well; a lot depends on how the new course for Cheap looks. Good idea to back off and reset.

     

    My week had 3 out of 6 days on the treadmill. Not worried about that; this is usually what happens during this part of winter. We had super cold and windy conditions the last few days with windchills in the -20 deg F range. My mid-week workout will likely remain on the mill through Feb and some of the recovery runs as well if it is super cold or icy. I had another nice hilly long run in frigid but at least not windy conditions this morning.

     

    Thx.  I also put myself on the waitlist for the Glass City half.  If Athens doesn't happen (someone pointed me to their FB, which looks less than promising) I may just find a half somewhere and wait until Grandmas.

     

    BTW, I believe we're sending some snow up your way.  Hopefully you get off light - so far we've only had 2 inches of a supposed 6-8.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    jhudak55


      JT: Nice week. The treadmill workout sounds pretty good right now. I had a windy track tempo on Thursday, felt like I was running into a wall for half of it. 

      DW: Unfortunate news with Myrtle. Seems like decent timing though, allow you a chance to reset and get ready for a race that will actually happen (hopefully). I remember you running a lot of hills last spring. Do you have a plan for what you are going to do this base?

       

      My week:

      40 miles

      M: Off

      T: 4 miles easy (8:54)

      W: 4 miles easy (8:56)

      T: 8.4 miles with a 4 mile tempo (7:11, 7:09, 7:11, 7:01)

      F: Off

      S: 9.4 miles easy (8:47)

      S: 14.1 mile long run (8:51)

      cinnamon girl


        Thanks for starting the 2021 thread JT! And welcome to the new people I hope you enjoy it enough to stick around and post when you can. Good to see you back Laura.

         

        M: 5 mi (809)
        T: 0
        W: 5 mi (835)
        T: 7 mi (808)
        F: 7 mi (813)
        S: 9 mi (757)
        S: 9 mi (759)
        42 mi

         

        Bio: I ran my freshman year in HS (1984-85) for XC (top 5 scorer on team that won state) and the 1 mi and 2 mi (2nd at state) in spring track. My dad died from cancer that year. Then the rest of HS was more drinking than running. Started training in 2010 at age 40. Favorite marathons: LA 1st AG in 2015, NYC 4th AG in 2016. I think I’m at 8 total so far. PRs 18:38 (Carlsbad 5000 2017), 38:38 (San Fran 2015), 1:23:54 (Toronto Waterfront 2015), 3:00:2x (Houston 2012).  I have undergrad degrees in Pharmacy and Ex Phys, a doctorate in Pharmacy, and currently work as a hospital pharmacist in oncology. Turned 50 last summer. Proud Gen-Xer. Living/training at 4000 ft +/-

        I am hoping to run Berlin this Fall assuming I can get the time off from work and assuming it happens. If September won’t work, I’ll look at either Barcelona or Valencia in Nov/Dec because I love visiting Spain. All good options I would be happy with.

        dpschumacher


        Making a comeback

          Just a hair under 91 easy miles this week.  I'll catch up tomorrow over lunch on people's weeks.

           

          New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

          USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

           

          2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

          Marathon Sub 2:40

          10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

          5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

          Marby


            DW - Sounds like a great call on the reset

            JTR - Brr

            Jhudak  - Coming back well with solid long runs two weeks running and now a tempo

            cinnamon - Hi

            dps - 91 is a lot!

             

            Have a couple of mates running a half on the 21st so will most likely be doing that. I'm also thinking of a 50k in late March which appeals 'cause that's when I turn 50.  Both events seem likely to go ahead but who knows - we've had four weeks without a case and had less than 30 cases in the last three months.

             

            Weekly for period: From: 01/25/2021 To 01/31/2021

            Date Name Distance
            in mi
            Duration Avg Pace
            per mi
            Elevation Gain
            in ft
            01/26/2021 Easy w/hills x5 6.56 01:03:47 09:43 331
            01/27/2021 Easy (3k) into Moderate (10k) 8.27 01:07:56 08:13 295
            01/29/2021 Easy (11k) into Moderate (2k) 8.24 01:11:36 08:41 190
            01/30/2021 Easy w/hills x6 7.03 01:03:24 09:01 302
            01/31/2021 Lycra Loop x2 15.64 02:17:01 08:46 1125

            Total distance: 45.74mi

            10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

               

               

               

              As for which races are best for sub-elite runners wanting to PR (for guys I'm thinking 2:25-2:40 range), I think there are quite a few races that are good choices for that crowd, besides CIM.  Houston, Grandma's, Columbus, Indy Monumental, Richmond, Philadelphia are just a few that come to mind.   All of which have pretty good odds of good weather.

               

               

              Thanks DK. Question for you: if you threw aside travel, which of all of these (including CIM) would you pick? CIM was such a great experience, it felt like a small race even though it was big. Just curious if there are other advantages to running Indy or Richmond for example over CIM.

               

              Philly may be an option just because that's drivable. I may have to consider that. I will say though getting another month of training is huge for CIM: you get to do all of your really difficult work in wonderful late October / early November weather instead of late September.

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                 

                I think it's had bad luck a few recent years, which contributes to the impression that it can be hot.  I've run it from 2015-2019, and 2016 and 2017 were both rough years heat-wise.  It is a weather risk, in the same Chicago can be.    But, as DPS points out, the fact that it's run along Lake Superior means that the race is basically in a micro climate that is a few degrees cooler in the summer than the surrounding area.

                 

                (about 10-15 years ago, CIM had just legendarily bad weather - torrential rain, flooding, and a headwind.  For sometime after, I knew a few people who wouldn't register because it was a weather risk)

                 

                As for which races are best for sub-elite runners wanting to PR (for guys I'm thinking 2:25-2:40 range), I think there are quite a few races that are good choices for that crowd, besides CIM.  Houston, Grandma's, Columbus, Indy Monumental, Richmond, Philadelphia are just a few that come to mind.   All of which have pretty good odds of good weather.

                 

                Yes, there are huge races that cater to the completers, plus possibly the true elites.  And there are also smaller races where pretty much anyone sub-3 is an island.  But there are plenty of options for the 2:25-2:40 crowd - it's not just CIM, Chicago, or bust.

                 

                 2012 Monsoon year. Prior to my marathon years.

                 

                I think a large part of the scheduling rut a marathon is stuck with is permitting. Hard to move a marathon from July to May if there are other events in the state going on. Boston happening 6 months later MIGHT be easier only because nothing else is allowed to go on. Moving something in 2018/2019 time is probably much more complicated especially when it is established and the city/state is accustomed to the event happening every year on a specific weekend. Hot August Nights in Reno couldn't just become Hot June Nights because of better weather. People get hotel rooms a year in advance for it.

                 

                Darkwave Bummer, and also kudos on pulling the plug on a training cycle. I might need the actual email saying I'm IN Boston 2021 to motivate myself to do anything more than 50 miles with easy running. I keep saying I need to try speed work and I keep avoiding it. Now I'm blaming my son who will be here in 2 weeks for why I'm not training. Oh and the weather. At least it isn't work anymore.

                 

                JMac How long would you stay for a California trip and what types of activities would you want to do? Napa/Coalinga/Santa Rosa for the adult beverages, Sacramento zoo might be cool for the daughter. Hockey in San Jose and I'm sure Basketball will be $1,000/ticket in San Francisco so go to a Kings game if you wanted to. They're cheaper.

                 

                 

                Weekly for period: From: 01/25/2021 To 01/31/2021

                Date Name Distance
                in mi
                Duration Avg Pace
                per mi
                Elevation Gain
                in ft
                01/25/2021 That time 🥈 beat 🥇 . 7.08 00:58:00 08:12 118
                01/26/2021 🟢 0.76 00:37:43 49:38 0
                01/30/2021 That time I was running in circles. 11.89 01:46:13 08:56 371
                01/31/2021 That time I stayed for donuts. 9.35 01:22:30 08:49 787

                Total distance: 29.08mi

                 

                Light week. Too much work and weather. 

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  JMac - I do agree with you regarding races catering to a particular crowd with timing, and I'd also love to run Grandma's but the risk of a bad weather day is pretty high. Route 66 in Tulsa is the only real marathon in OK that you can count on getting good marathon racing weather, but the course is hillier than NYC. NYC has some larger hills (bridges) than Tulsa, but the ups and downs just don't stop there except for a short stretch along a river.


                  DWave - Sounds like you made a good call regarding marathon training, all things considered.


                  JT - Nice week.


                  Cinnamon - Hi.


                  DPS - Those miles... whew.


                  No LR from me this week. I was on the treadmill, hiding from a thunderstorm, and simply got bored with it. Still managed to get back there for some more miles and round off to 70. In retrospect, had I went out in the weather I almost certainly would have gotten 16 miles simply by virtue of most of my LR routes being big loops or out-and-backs.

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 01/25/2021 To 01/31/2021

                  Date Name Distance
                  in mi
                  Duration Avg Pace
                  per mi
                  Elevation Gain
                  in ft
                  01/25/2021 5x 4 min CP + 4x 3 min VO2 - Innsbruck 11.26 01:20:01 07:06 0
                  01/26/2021 Dead headlamp batteries by mile 2 6.50 00:55:53 08:36 338
                  01/26/2021 3 gorillas and 3 silverbacks 5.50 00:38:41 07:02 302
                  01/27/2021 2 ducks, 1 rabbit, & 1 hawk 9.05 01:15:29 08:20 318
                  01/28/2021 2x (4x 1k @ CP) 10.26 01:14:52 07:18 259
                  01/29/2021 An oddly calm, zero wildlife run 10.05 01:24:13 08:23 361
                  01/30/2021 I'm out of patience for this today - London 10.51 01:25:10 08:06 0
                  01/30/2021 It's unclear as to whether this was patience or frustration - Yorkshire 4.05 00:32:13 07:57 0
                  01/31/2021 Donut run 3.15 00:27:04 08:36 92

                  Total distance: 70.33mi

                  5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  3/13 - Okie Half

                  4/3 - OKRunner Classic 15k

                  10/2 - Wurst Race Half

                    jhudak: Good to see you back here and nice week.

                     

                    Cinnamon: Welcome back! I'm glad you're ok and still running. I put you down for Berlin; hopefully that works out this year. If not Valencia would be pretty nice; lots of WRs set in that city last year!

                     

                    Marby: Another strong week and some good quality in there as well. A 50k when you turn 50 sounds cool! Let me know if you want any of those races on the table.

                     

                    Keen: Strong week. LRs on the treadmill are tough. I find ones with quality in them, like a big MP block, easier, mentally at least, than the all easy pace ones. Those can be brutal.

                    2:52:16 (2018)

                      General question for you all: how do you find the elevation profiles from MapMyRun compare to reality? They updated the website for the Cheap marathon with the new course in southern New Hampshire, but it is on MapMyRun and shows 531 ft of gain for 13.1 miles. It's all on a rail trail and is claimed to be super flat in the write-up. For comparison, I looked up the Athens marathon course on MapMyRun and it shows >1700 ft of gain, while my Garmin when I actually ran the race had 90 ft of gain, which is reality - the course is super flat. Just wondering if MapMyRun is consistently way off on elevation profiles.

                      2:52:16 (2018)

                      JMac11


                      Taper Czar

                        General question for you all: how do you find the elevation profiles from MapMyRun compare to reality? They updated the website for the Cheap marathon with the new course in southern New Hampshire, but it is on MapMyRun and shows 531 ft of gain for 13.1 miles. It's all on a rail trail and is claimed to be super flat in the write-up. For comparison, I looked up the Athens marathon course on MapMyRun and it shows >1700 ft of gain, while my Garmin when I actually ran the race had 90 ft of gain, which is reality - the course is super flat. Just wondering if MapMyRun is consistently way off on elevation profiles.

                         

                        I love running on rail trails. Never knew about them until a couple of years ago, but now do all of my TTs on them. I can say that those especially can get botched on map my run if there is some sort of bridge. For example, I did my half marathon time trial this past March on a rail trail. It had a bridge that went over the Hudson, but since the Hudson is sort of like a canyon (you know what I mean JT), the bridge itself was actually pretty level. However, it looked like a huge drop and gain, because elevation obviously assumes you're doing it on the terrain.

                         

                        Long story short: I'd trust the race website. I'd also add that rail trails, by definition, cannot have steep inclines/declines. If you really want to be serious, use Strava's heat map, find people who have run on the rail trail, and see what they show. You can also look at where mapmyrun shows big gains/losses and see if it makes sense given the topography using Google street view.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                          Thanks JMac. I was looking at Google maps of the rail trail and it looks very flat. Also, all the marathon courses I've run have the gain massively exaggerated on mapmyrun, so it seems like it is just flawed for elevation estimation, for whatever reason.

                           

                          I'm with you on rail trails being awesome for running. There's a 25 mile stretch near where I grew up in MI and I love running on that whenever I'm back home.

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                          OMR


                            dps:  "Just a hair under 91..."  I was just a hair under 91, too...but it was a really, really, really long hair...

                             

                            Cinnamon:  Good to see you posting again.

                             

                            Marby:  We saw something on the news the other day about gatherings in your neck of the woods (no social distancing, no masks), and was wondering how that was possible until they said you haven't had any new cases in a month.

                             

                            All of that snow some of you are getting stayed south of us.  We got a little freezing drizzle instead.  Good to have a little more ice before the arctic temps move in later this week!

                             

                            Last week wound up being completely free of running for me.  Sunday/Monday were rest days, and the rest of the week was spent on the elliptical.  Started running again today, hope to get a long run in tomorrow or Wednesday, and then it's going to get cold.  I also tried putting screws in my shoes today...I'm running in Saucony Peregrines, which have places for screwing in studs.  It may have helped a little with regard to not slipping on the landing if you are on a very solid and slippery surface, but the improvement was negligible for anything else.  Only cost me $1.92, so I can't complain too much.

                            dpschumacher


                            Making a comeback

                              OMR hahaha

                               

                              New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                              USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                               

                              2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                              Marathon Sub 2:40

                              10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                              5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                              cinnamon girl


                                90 ft gain for a marathon?? Wow! My 9 mi route this past weekend I thought was super flat and it had 50-60 ft.

                                I very much miss my rail trail that ran along the Mississippi. Just a straight shot so you could either zone out or focus, with no worries of traffic and stops. And such a nice running surface.

                                 

                                Thanks for putting Berlin on the calendar JT.  I will have to see if I can do peak marathon training in August when temps will be triple digits or close to it. It will depend on my work schedule. I may decide to switch to Valencia. And yes I've watched videos of the course - beautiful!

                                I wasn't OK and I wasn't running. But I am now - thanks

                                 

                                Marby - have you ran a 50k before? Sounds like a good cover up so you can blame all your aches and pains on the ks not the yrs.

                                 

                                Hi OMR! The town I just moved from - the local running store had a screw shoe day where you could bring in your shoes and they would put the screws in them for free. I thought that was nice. I feel fortunate to have gotten out of there before needing them!

                                 

                                Hi Keen