2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 449 times)

DavePNW


    Hey, sorry to just jump in here, but can any of the CIM vets offer any pacing tips?

    Dave

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

      Hey, sorry to just jump in here, but can any of the CIM vets offer any pacing tips?

       

      The only thing I can say is everyone starts out way too fast like they do at every marathon, but even more so with the downhill. Have you run Boston before? It's not crazy downhill like the first mile there, but it has a similar feel. People should be blowing by you in the first mile. If you're keeping up with most people, you are going too fast. That should be true for the first 2-3 miles.

       

      Other than that, there are no pacing tips to give outside of normal marathon advice. There are no real large hills up or down after that.

       

      Also, no need to apologize for jumping in (in fact, jump in more often!)

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

      DavePNW


         

        The only thing I can say is everyone starts out way too fast like they do at every marathon, but even more so with the downhill. Have you run Boston before? It's not crazy downhill like the first mile there, but it has a similar feel. People should be blowing by you in the first mile. If you're keeping up with most people, you are going too fast. That should be true for the first 2-3 miles.

         

        Other than that, there are no pacing tips to give outside of normal marathon advice. There are no real large hills up or down after that.

         

        Also, no need to apologize for jumping in (in fact, jump in more often!)

         

        Thanks! It looked like in parts of the first half there is some hilliness, but it's hard to tell if there's anything that requires any significant pace adjustments. I am in Seattle so I'm used to hills that are probably much worse, although having them in a marathon is always a different situation. Yes I've run Boston; the issue I found with the first 1-2 miles is that there is so much congestion, you have no choice but to run the exact same pace as everyone around you.

         

        I am trying to decide what pace to go out at. I really want to go for the faster one, but I know deep down the correct answer is the slower one. You have reinforced the correct answer, maybe I'll even listen.

        Dave


        Elite Jogger

           

          You're not the thread dictator so you have no authority here. I think 42 different KM breakdowns would be awesome. Because 42.

           

          I quite like the km markers at European marathons (iirc Paris had km and mile markers) as the race just seems to go quicker.

           

          Keen - Congrats, I think a 5k race 10 days out was a good move with your mileage and should be a nice boost come race day!  I agree with Steve, if it’s a 5k/10k race then it’s completely legit to post the splits in km!  In the UK we always have km markers for those distances which makes perfect sense to me. However, I still keep my Garmin in the mile settings. 

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

             

            Thanks! It looked like in parts of the first half there is some hilliness, but it's hard to tell if there's anything that requires any significant pace adjustments. I am in Seattle so I'm used to hills that are probably much worse, although having them in a marathon is always a different situation. Yes I've run Boston; the issue I found with the first 1-2 miles is that there is so much congestion, you have no choice but to run the exact same pace as everyone around you.

             

            I am trying to decide what pace to go out at. I really want to go for the faster one, but I know deep down the correct answer is the slower one. You have reinforced the correct answer, maybe I'll even listen.

             

            I would say that it's rolling enough that you have to be prepared for your splits to vary up and down a bit.

             

            Also, as JMac notes - lots of people go out too fast.  This is amplified by the fact that the pace groups pace for "even effort" which means that their first miles are some of their fastest.

             

            CIM can be a fast course, but it is not the easiest of courses.  For every person who has a great race at CIM there are several who do not.  And it's usually because they go out on the fast end of what they are capable of, expecting a smooth downhill ride to the finish.

             

            CK - great race report (And obviously, great race).  We need to get you into a fast 5K.  Have you considered heading over to Houston in January to run the 5K associated with the marathon?

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

               

              Thanks! It looked like in parts of the first half there is some hilliness, but it's hard to tell if there's anything that requires any significant pace adjustments. I am in Seattle so I'm used to hills that are probably much worse, although having them in a marathon is always a different situation. Yes I've run Boston; the issue I found with the first 1-2 miles is that there is so much congestion, you have no choice but to run the exact same pace as everyone around you.

               

              I am trying to decide what pace to go out at. I really want to go for the faster one, but I know deep down the correct answer is the slower one. You have reinforced the correct answer, maybe I'll even listen.

               

              It's rolling hills for about 21 miles. The start is downhill, then a big right hand turn to an uphill climb. This goes from a pretty wide 4 lane road with center median to a 2 lane paved county road.  Everyone will be going out way too fast for this first downhill. After that it's just rolling hills with some flat spots mixed in. The left hand turn at mile 6 is pretty flat, and after the bridge around mile 21 it's pancake flat to the finish.

               

              I'm sure you've seen the YouTube video of the course. The one I linked above has some decent footage of the course and the rolling hills. I personally go for it from the beginning. The first few hills seem to be the biggest/longest.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 54.9

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              JMac11


              I spilled the milk

                 

                It's rolling hills for about 21 miles. The start is downhill, then a big right hand turn to an uphill climb.

                 

                Another guy complaining about the humidity that year, and then everyone else blaming that if they had a poor race. Insane. Yeah, it was "humid", but at 51 degrees, it's not like you couldn't work through that by just drinking a lot of water. I also don't think it was an issue of acclimation given by this time of year, almost everyone is running in 30s or 40s so it's not like those of us in traditionally "wetter" areas were just used to it.

                 

                I said this after the race last by year, but I feel like unless people get A++++ weather at CIM, they complain. But luckily, it's looking like that kind of weather this Sunday, so no excuses!

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  DWave - Thank you. I had not yet considered running the 5k in Houston. Let me see. Houston is about a 9 hour drive when I take the family, but solo I could easily cut that down by at least 2 hours. Then again, non-stop, round-trip tickets are only $127 (yes, I actually looked it up). That's not at all out of line for a race that would hopefully take less than 18 minutes.


                  JMac - Unless it's 45F at the start, cooling to about 41F at the end, with a 3-5mph crosswind, and complete cloud cover I'm going to call foul on this whole magic of Cheating In Marathons thing.

                  5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                  CIM - 12/4

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    JMac The wonderful thing about Cheating in Marathons is there is always a reason to come up with for not having the glorious "Disney Princess" race day. The weather there is always "almost perfect" and the people not running it can say how great THEY'D do, or how perfect it was. If you ain't Cheating you ain't Trying.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 54.9

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                    DavePNW


                       

                      CIM can be a fast course, but it is not the easiest of courses.  For every person who has a great race at CIM there are several who do not.  And it's usually because they go out on the fast end of what they are capable of, expecting a smooth downhill ride to the finish.

                       

                       

                      Yeah, the people I've talked to seem to either love the race or hate it. I am thinking about going out with a pace group because I'm not too confident self-pacing on a hilly course. But maybe go with the next group slower than my ultimate goal time.

                       

                       If you ain't Cheating you ain't Trying.

                       

                      I finally broke down and bought the magic cheater shoes a couple weeks ago, so between that and the current weather forecast, I'll have no excuses at all. Other than darkwave's comment.

                      Dave

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        Yeah, the people I've talked to seem to either love the race or hate it. I am thinking about going out with a pace group because I'm not too confident self-pacing on a hilly course. But maybe go with the next group slower than my ultimate goal time.

                         

                        The italicized is my preference.

                         

                        I ran 2:57 at CIM, intentionally starting behind the 3:10 pace group.  Over the course of the race, I chased down the 3:10, 3:05, and 3:00 pace groups, finishing a bit ahead of the 3 hour group.  I recommend a similar approach - it's always nice to have someone ahead of you running slightly slower to chase down.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        DavePNW


                           

                          The italicized is my preference.

                           

                          I ran 2:57 at CIM, intentionally starting behind the 3:10 pace group.  Over the course of the race, I chased down the 3:10, 3:05, and 3:00 pace groups, finishing a bit ahead of the 3 hour group.  I recommend a similar approach - it's always nice to have someone ahead of you running slightly slower to chase down.

                           

                          Wow that's a hell of a negative split. This would suggest stepping back two groups, but it's hard for me to imagine making up that much time on the course. Of course I agree it's great to be able to chase down people. I've only negative-splitted, once (and not by nearly that much); I still consider that my greatest race even though it's no longer my PR.

                          Dave

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                             

                            Wow that's a hell of a negative split. This would suggest stepping back two groups, but it's hard for me to imagine making up that much time on the course. Of course I agree it's great to be able to chase down people. I've only negative-splitted, once (and not by nearly that much); I still consider that my greatest race even though it's no longer my PR.

                             

                            I positive split by about 8 seconds, actually.

                             

                            Here is my Strava with my manual splits.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            DavePNW


                               

                              I positive split by about 8 seconds, actually.

                               

                              Here is my Strava with my manual splits.

                               

                              Can't see it; follow requested. 

                               

                              MTA: thanks. Nice splits. You caught up to goal pace quicker than I imagined from your post, just after the first 2 miles. Also the Strava elevation profile gives me a better idea of the hilliness than what the race provides.

                              Dave

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                 

                                I positive split by about 8 seconds, actually.

                                 

                                Here is my Strava with my manual splits.

                                 

                                First km 25 seconds slower than average for the race.  Must take note.  Hard to see many up hills in that profile.  I still think I'd prefer a flat course than a net downhill with some rollers.  Maybe that's because I'm still looking towards my first and flat makes it easier to pace from the start.

                                 

                                Also, slight positive split while passing 3 pace groups shows why they're good to use as markers, but never ever put your race in their hands.  Maybe unless you personally know the pacer and can reference previous races they've paced.

                                Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                                Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022