So I finally saw the ortho today. As usual with these guys, seems they are in & out of the room before you can remember most of the questions you wanted to ask. And there is never any certainty to the long term outlook. But basically he confirmed the most likely cause of my problem is a torn meniscus, for which the only real solution is surgery. Although he admitted he often had disputes with his colleague as to whether removal or repair is the appropriate course. But I am still in the mode that since the injury does not interfere with my real (non-running) life, it's hard to justify. He did not tell me to stop running, which I guess is a good thing. And I did get a steroid injection, which he said was worth a try. Anyone had experience with that? (Oski in 3...2...1....)
Dave
Hip Redux
OK, seriously, I was *literally* just about to PM you and find out what the heck the doctor said!
I've only had steroid injections in my spine, and they did help. But YMMV with the knee shot. Did he say what the long term issues may be if you don't repair it? Risk of arthritis later on or anything? Orthos are spectacular at the I'm-here-for-45 seconds-no-questions-please-visit, I swear.
Singer who runs a smidge
Dave, how much of an issue is your knee when you run?
When it's all said and done, no one remembers how far we have run. The only thing that matters is how we have loved.
Refurbished Hip
But I am still in the mode that since the injury does not interfere with my real (non-running) life, it's hard to justify.
I'm sorry, Dave. I think I'm also scared to make this decision, why is why I haven't started my process back up with the doctor.
Running is dumb.
Former Bad Ass
Sorry to hear this, Dave.
Damaris
Thanks for everyone's comments.
OK, seriously, I was *literally* just about to PM you and find out what the heck the doctor said! I've only had steroid injections in my spine, and they did help. But YMMV with the knee shot. Did he say what the long term issues may be if you don't repair it? Risk of arthritis later on or anything?
I've only had steroid injections in my spine, and they did help. But YMMV with the knee shot. Did he say what the long term issues may be if you don't repair it? Risk of arthritis later on or anything?
I believe you, I think you must have an Outlook reminder set for me.
And yes that seems like another obvious question I did not directly ask. Although I did ask specifically if he saw any arthritis in the MRI or X-ray, and he said everything actually looked pretty good (...and I completed his sentence with "for a guy my age").
It varies. No problem at the start, I generally start to feel the first twinge at ~3 miles, then usually have to stop by 4-6. So if I decided I wanted to be a 4 miles, 3 times a week runner, I would be fine. (Or god forbid, a cyclist! ) But I'm greedy, once you've had a taste of higher mileage, it's hard to go back....
Although a few days ago I ran 6 without pain, and yesterday I actually did 8 for the first time in 2 months, with only minor pain after ~5. Total 23 miles this week, my most since the injury started. Maybe I will pay for this overindulgnce....
Yeah, that was the first thing the MRI tech told me to expect - these guys make a living on surgery, so that's the primary path.
(BTW, if I am able to keep up what I did last week, I seriously sandbagged my reported mileage for the L&O competition!)
You got me. I actually have one for everyone in this thread - nova, Hopesmom, scap, blue, daisy et al, along with a folder of details - doctors appts, MRI/x-ray results, PT sessions and various outcomes and diagnoses. I review this weekly along with a spreadsheet of posts and entries to the RA log and do a side-by-side comparison to gauge progress.
You can thank Obamacare.
Super B****
I'm sorry, Dave, that's got to be tough. I wish I had something helpful to offer, but unless you want commiseration, I'm fresh out.
But speaking of shots... anyone know much about prolotherapy? I've had it up to here with my knee. (And oh, yeah, have I mentioned that the shin splints are back?! So much for my "ITBS replaced MTSS" theory.) I ran a half yesterday, and my knee felt fine in the days leading up to it, but I'm just now starting to be able to walk normally again. Whatever I am doing is clearly not working, so it's probably time to change course.
chasing the impossible
because i never shut up ... i blog
rather be sprinting
Dave, that's too bad. Meniscus tear really only gets better with surgery. The problem with steroid shots or cortisol is, it doesn't really heal the tissue and can cause more actual wear and tear on the joint. But obviously it's a choice you have to make. Is there another sports doc you can consult at all?
My dad may actually be in your position, though he refuses to see the dr. until after his little tennis camp getaway... ngh.
Anyway, I hope you're OK.
I'm doing wlel, knock on wood, but I am TERRIFIED of hurting myself again so much so that it is kind of sucking all the joy out of running. That said, I did get in my first 5-miler this week, after a day off. I became a bit overexuberant while running and went too fast, 8:15. Obviously it did not feel that fast, but I'm trying VERY hard to keep it easy and that was on the edge. Gonna sloooow down next time even if get bored. It's just so hard when I want to feel like I'm actually RUNNING not jogging, you know--that feeling of weightless freedom. It's hard because I'm both scared of injury and so so bored with jogging and so eager to increase my fitness.
PRs: 5k 19:25, mile 5:38, HM 1:30:56
Lifting PRs: bench press 125lb, back squat 205 lb, deadlift 245lb
Dave, that's too bad. Meniscus tear really only gets better with surgery. The problem with steroid shots or cortisol is, it doesn't really heal the tissue and can cause more actual wear and tear on the joint. But obviously it's a choice you have to make. Is there another sports doc you can consult at all? I'm doing wlel, knock on wood, but I am TERRIFIED of hurting myself again so much so that it is kind of sucking all the joy out of running. That said, I did get in my first 5-miler this week, after a day off. I became a bit overexuberant while running and went too fast, 8:15. Obviously it did not feel that fast, but I'm trying VERY hard to keep it easy and that was on the edge. Gonna sloooow down next time even if get bored. It's just so hard when I want to feel like I'm actually RUNNING not jogging, you know--that feeling of weightless freedom. It's hard because I'm both scared of injury and so so bored with jogging and so eager to increase my fitness.
Regarding 2nd opinion - interestingly, the doc I saw told me to make an appointment to see another guy in his practice, in 6 weeks. (Oski: 11/27, 10:30 AM - please add to your calendar.) Not sure another guy in the same group counts, but it is in fact the guy he told me he disagrees with on surgery options. So if nothing else it will be a chance for me to get some questions answered....
On your 2nd paragraph - amen. It is considered a great run when I am not thinking at EVERY INSTANT "is there going to be pain?" or "is this pain going to get worse?". I am not very fast anyway, but forcing yourself to go slower than normal pace is frustrating.
You got me. I actually have one for everyone in this thread - nova, Hopesmom, scap, blue, daisy et al, along with a folder of details - doctors appts, MRI/x-ray results, PT sessions and various outcomes and diagnoses. I review this weekly along with a spreadsheet of posts and entries to the RA log and do a side-by-side comparison to gauge progress. You can thank Obamacare.
So who's making progress?
I went for a walk last night while Dusty and DH went for a mini-run. I think I got about half a mile in, with no more pain than I usually have walking around, so that's all good.
My last run, a week ago, was a good one with no pain during or afterwards, or even the next day. I felt really optimistic about my progress. But when I tried to do a short jog (not part of an actual run) a few days later, I hurt. So, maybe I'm almost healed, maybe not. I'm hoping to get out today, so we'll see how it goes.
I'm sorry, Dave, that's got to be tough. I wish I had something helpful to offer, but unless you want commiseration, I'm fresh out. But speaking of shots... anyone know much about prolotherapy? I've had it up to here with my knee. (And oh, yeah, have I mentioned that the shin splints are back?! So much for my "ITBS replaced MTSS" theory.) I ran a half yesterday, and my knee felt fine in the days leading up to it, but I'm just now starting to be able to walk normally again. Whatever I am doing is clearly not working, so it's probably time to change course.
I know someone who tried it for his low back and his relief was temporary (and not sure if that was helpful since he was throwing everything he could try at the problem). It sounds like one of those things that the medical community doesn't know what to do with...
Have you thought of something like acupuncture? A little less invasive than the prolotherapy shots but similar. I had really good luck with neck pain and acupuncture, but it did nothing for low back... but one of those things that can't hurt to try.
Oski, I am an acupuncture regular! I get it pretty much weekly, sometimes twice a week. (I figure I may as well, since for some reason I have 100% coverage for it -- I don't even have a co-pay. May as well get my money's worth from my premiums, right?) I actually used to think it was a load of crap, but I tried it out of desperation for a repetitive strain injury in my wrist a few years back and it worked. Nothing else did, but that fixed it. Same for a back problem I had in the summer of 2011. But for this... any relief is mostly temporary, too.
I asked my PT about prolotherapy, he said pretty much the same thing you did. I'm guessing insurance wouldn't cover any of it, and I wouldn't mind paying for it out of pocket if I knew it would work, but... not sure. It is true that I did run a half after not running more than 45 minutes for a few weeks, so it's probably not unexpected that I couldn't walk for a couple of days. My shin is killing me, but my knee feels fine now. Guess I'm back to the "build up slowly" drawing board...
Wow, 100% coverage is awesome!