Beginners and Beyond

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Overdistance training (Read 78 times)

wcrunner2


Are we there, yet?


    Anyway, I think the points made by LRB & onemile are more interesting - quality vs quantity. So far this is my first marathon cycle without a 20-miler. I may yet have one, but may not. I used to assume you had to have at least one, I think I had 3 last time. From seeing what a lot of the faster people do, I'm more interested now in killing my 16-18's. My weekly mileage may end up being less than the last cycle too.

     

    I've yet to run a 20-miler for marathon training. I ran some marathons for ultra training, but that's a different situation. Before my first marathon I had one leisurely 18-miler and a 30K tune-up race. I also had a ton of quality workouts and loads of races in the 3-12 mile range. With all that quality, a 7:00 pace felt easy and the biggest problem in the marathon wasn't the distance, but being disciplined to hold back in the early miles. I also think killing your 16-18 mile training runs isn't a good idea. If you want some long, hard efforts in training, I'd suggest some 10K or 10M races.

     2024 Races:

          03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

          05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
          05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

          06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

     

     

         

    Half Crazy K 2.0


      I've only done as far as a half. I tend to do my longest runs by time. My longest ones last time were just over 2 hours, I ran just under 2:06. Is there a benefit to stretching those long runs to the 2.5 to 3 hour mark? If I'm not doing HM or other quality and just doing them slow, 16 miles will take me about 3 hours.

      happylily


        For me, a runner exactly 18 years older than onemile (meaning an older runner), and one who runs 4 marathons on average per year, doing lots of speedwork is hard. My legs simply cannot take it. They break down. Maybe other men, or women, my age can do it, but I'm built differently, I guess. So because of that, I feel I have to rely on more LRs to give me the endurance necessary for the marathon. That, and strong weekly mileage as well. I still do speedwork once a week, but I don't overcomplicate it. It's either 5-7 HMP mpw or some 800m intervals at 5k pace, alternating, or in phases. I'm not looking for the magic recipe for speedwork at this point in my running life.

        PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

        18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

        LRB


          For me, a runner exactly 18 years older than onemile (meaning an older runner), and one who runs 4 marathons on average per year, doing lots of speedwork is hard. My legs simply cannot take it. They break down. Maybe other men, or women, my age can do it, but I'm built differently, I guess. So because of that, I feel I have to rely on more LRs to give me the endurance necessary for the marathon. That, and strong weekly mileage as well. I still do speedwork once a week, but I don't overcomplicate it. It's either 5-7 HMP mpw or some 800m intervals at 5k pace, alternating, or in phases. I'm not looking for the magic recipe for speedwork at this point in my running life.

           

          I don't think anyone would question your training or racing efforts...well there was one who did. 

          Docket_Rocket


          Former Bad Ass

            I suck at racing but I am similar yo happylily that I benefit more of 18-20 milers than more speedwork but only because my lungs cannot take all that without lowering my breathing and therefore affecting my training and race. Otherwise, I would do more fast running. It's hard for my lungs to handle even HMP pace imagine faster.

            Damaris

            onemile


              For me, a runner exactly 18 years older than onemile (meaning an older runner), and one who runs 4 marathons on average per year, doing lots of speedwork is hard. My legs simply cannot take it. They break down. Maybe other men, or women, my age can do it, but I'm built differently, I guess. So because of that, I feel I have to rely on more LRs to give me the endurance necessary for the marathon. That, and strong weekly mileage as well. I still do speedwork once a week, but I don't overcomplicate it. It's either 5-7 HMP mpw or some 800m intervals at 5k pace, alternating, or in phases. I'm not looking for the magic recipe for speedwork at this point in my running life.

              See, I would say running 16 miles on Saturday followed by 20 miles on Sunday would be too much for my legs.  That seems a lot harder to me but I tend to feel more beat up from long runs than speedwork I think.

              DavePNW


                 I tend to feel more beat up from long runs than speedwork I think.

                 

                +1

                Dave

                DavePNW


                  I've only done as far as a half. I tend to do my longest runs by time. My longest ones last time were just over 2 hours, I ran just under 2:06. Is there a benefit to stretching those long runs to the 2.5 to 3 hour mark? If I'm not doing HM or other quality and just doing them slow, 16 miles will take me about 3 hours.

                   

                  I'm no expert, but according to the Hansons, 2.5-3 hrs is in fact the most you should ever do for marathon training. The idea being it beats you up to the point where you cannot recover well enough for your quality sessions. So their Advanced plan caps the LR at 16 - again this is for marathons. Not sure what they recommend for HM.

                  Dave

                  Cyberic


                    I like mixing quality and quantity. Not choose between the two. The focus will drift more towards speed if I'm training for a 5k, but I'll still run long on Sundays and try to keep a reasonable MPW count, and training for longer distances, my focus will shift towards volume and endurance.

                    Cyberic


                      It's not what I'm doing right now though: By following the Hansons, no more speed work . I just enjoy both volume and speed work, so try to keep doing both if possible.


                      Mmmmm...beer

                        I'm a big fan of volume and progression/fast finish long runs, tempos here and there.  My last two long runs, both 18 milers, were steady on front side, progression on the back side, with some good speed on the last mile.  Making yourself go fast on tired legs is a great stimulus for any distance, but especially longer events where endurance is king.  I also like 15-16 mile LRs for half training. Smile

                        -Dave

                        My running blog

                        Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-3 marathon 2:56:46!!

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