Hmmm, that started a thought process in my mind. I've spent months not training for an event. The running was very good, most of the time. Now I'm training for stuff, so I try to do more, to be more ready, to have more improvement, to have more PRs and be more satisfied. Result: I'm more tired, and there's more shit running.

 

That was not the reason why you had shit running, but injury in your case. It's just that the words "shit running" got me thinking...

Interesting...but here's the problem with not doing "shit running" - when you don't do it for long enough a period of time, you actually become a shit runner. In other words, I think there's some amount of value in runs that aren't great and don't feel ideal (a whole separate topic is the psychological benefit of terrible runs, which I think is immense).

I think I may have mentioned the finding from an article I was reading a while back on blood volume (in association with blood doping, but then what are natural ways to increase), which found that the best way aside from altitude training to increase blood volume is actually running consistency. That finding along would lead me to believe that crap running still provides a solid training benefit.

Also, as "shit running" relates to training cycles, I would say that's where ideas like periodization and peaking come into play. Not all the running is going to feel great during a training cycle because your body is being broken down. The hope is that the breakdowns are occurring purposefully, to then be built back up and sharpened to a peak come race time. If the training is causing too big of a breakdown to where your body isn't recovering or benefiting, then my guess would be that the training intensity or volume were being over-applied.

 

Hard training yields a lot of shit running. But it also should yield some well-executed quality runs. During my last cycle, I was getting all of the former and none of the latter.

And that's definitely where you have to look at things, whether it's injury, running too hard, too much/often, etc. It's not a real clear line between injury and just fatigue/ugly runs, which is what makes what we do as just hobby joggers a lot more difficult than anyone would ever imagine. Pros have every kind of resource imaginable to be able to understand where their body is at and how it is reacting, and based on that someone makes the decision for them as to when to push and when to back off. We don't have that advantage, and instead have to play coach/athlete/physical therapist and everything else all at the same time.

 

And that's definitely where you have to look at things, whether it's injury, running too hard, too much/often, etc. It's not a real clear line between injury and just fatigue/ugly runs, which is what makes what we do as just hobby joggers a lot more difficult than anyone would ever imagine. Pros have every kind of resource imaginable to be able to understand where their body is at and how it is reacting, and based on that someone makes the decision for them as to when to push and when to back off. We don't have that advantage, and instead have to play coach/athlete/physical therapist and everything else all at the same time.

It's hard to continue to make the sacrifices if every run is shit though. We don't get paid to run. This is supposed to be an enjoyable/fun/rewarding hobby (or therapy). I think Dave is doing the right thing by taking a break.

 

It's hard to continue to make the sacrifices if every run is shit though. We don't get paid to run. This is supposed to be an enjoyable/fun/rewarding hobby (or therapy). I think Dave is doing the right thing by taking a break.

+1

 

Interesting...but here's the problem with not doing "shit running" - when you don't do it for long enough a period of time, you actually become a shit runner. In other words, I think there's some amount of value in runs that aren't great and don't feel ideal (a whole separate topic is the psychological benefit of terrible runs, which I think is immense).

 

 

Please, please, please baby Jeebus, make this be true because all my runs for what feels like forever have been somewhere on the spectrum between "meh" and "shitty."  At least nothing hurts, so there's that.  I just don't have much pop.  Looking at my last workout before the marathon, I did 14 miles with 10 at "MP" of 8:30, and nailed it.  If you asked me to run 2 miles at 8:30 right now, I don't think I could do it.  I'm not even sure I've got 2 miles at 9 in my legs.  They be the dead.

PR, you are my spirit animal with your weed/running wisdom.  We would totes be friends IRL.

I actually used to love evening running, but with kids in elementary school it's a no-go.  I get home with them at 5:40, and on the nights I don't eat with them, I generally don't even sit down until 8.  Gotta make them dinner, give them showers (when we have time), put them to bed, then back down to make lunches for the next day, and clean up all the crap from cooking/making those things.  I'm pretty organized, but it is hectic nonetheless and I fall into bed at 9:00.  Summer is kind of fun because they get home an hour earlier and we have more time for other stuff, and it's LIGHT OUTSIDE.  I love summer.

Well my mother's day was better than Whiskers's was, pink eye?  That sucks!  Last year my puppy got violently ill, and I woke up with the plan of a nice long easy run but instead spent 2 hours cleaning up the horror he had created, then several hours at the vet waiting to find out if he had parvo.  Thank G-d he did not, but it was the crappiest day.  This year he was just fine, kids didn't get sick, and I got in my 11 miles.  Except I saw a motherfucking snake, and I don't do well in that situation.  I learned that if you scream on that section of the road, no one will come and help you, because I tested that out.  You'd think I would have some crazy spike in speed, but I was climbing a steep ass hill at the time, and I can only get so fast going straight up while shrieking.  So now I'm trying to decide if I should get a treadmill for the rest of my life, because this is not an acceptable situation.

I'm not really exaggerating either, I took yesterday off because I wasn't sure where would be the most safe / least likely for a repeat encounter.  I sacked up and got in 6 and change this morning, but stuck to the very populated areas.  Going to spin tonight.

Fred, NICE AG win!!!!  That's awesome!  KC, that course is brutal, you did what you could with what you had.  You definitely killed it as far as "mental toughness" is concerned.  HC, nice 5K woman!  I think your pacing was really great, looks like a smart race to me.

Dave, thank you for not sharing pictures, but I hope everything is tip-top up in there.

JayB.  Dude.  I have got to get a pair of those sunglasses.  Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the best laugh I've had in a while.  ROS, I feel like you will probably share my falling on the floor laughing experience if you go to their website and read the names of all the different colors.  I cannot rest until I own Rabbit Egg Hunting With Zombie Jesus.  Those shades shall be mine.

 

Oh beyond a doubt...I wasn't trying to suggest that Dave wasn't making the right choice by any stretch. If it's the choice he feels good about, then it's 100% the right choice for him. It sounds like he's dealing with an actual injury too, so that's definitely a distinction.

 

I was just trying to add a little to the conversation with the idea Cyberic was raising about runs not feeling particularly great during training.

 

To that end, it's why I don't try to analyze my own runs too much...just getting them in is a gigantic part of the equation. When you run enough, you know that not every run is a good run (or not even most runs).

 

ETA - I know that I'm new to a lot of people in the group, so if I offend anyone by posting too frequently or with too much familiarity, I apologize.. I do promise though that the last thing I would ever do is attack anyone for his or her running.

+1 about Dave.

I love your posts. I didn't think you were offensive at all (and of course you don't post too frequently!). It makes sense that what you wrote was more in context of Cyber's training and his recent change in types of training (more intensity = shittier overall runs b/c of more fatigue and bodily break down).

Please do enlighten us with your wisdom and knowledge. I hope everyone continues to do so. That's how we all learn, right?

ETA - I know that I'm new to a lot of people in the group, so if I offend anyone by posting too frequently or with too much familiarity, I apologize.. I do promise though that the last thing I would ever do is attack anyone for his or her running.

I'm offended that I'm not offended. Try harder next time. 

Back on the BF, we had a thing called junk miles, which in actuality, they really weren't. That was just the term we used which was basically describing the miles you put in to get your requisite totals regardless of how you felt.

While training for a specific event, because my longest, hardest or toughest runs are usually on the weekend, I typically feel like crap Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. By Thursday though, I start feeling better and am ready to hit it hard over the weekend again. There are times however, when I feel like shit through the week and into the next one. That's when I will look at what I'm doing and maybe skip a workout or modify it's length/intensity. That doesn't always work though when you're on a plan so your nutrition has to be on point as well as cross-training for strength, eating for fuel, massage for recovery and even physical therapy for weaknesses. But sometimes you're just beat the fuck down and need to back off intensity or volume entirely and that is as you pointed out, another example of the quandary we face, because there are times when you need to push through two or three weeks or even a month of fatigue for the greater good of the ultimate goal.

LM. I would have freaked the F out. Snakes?! No thank you. I did read the names of the colors. Dead funny. Now buy some, post pics on IG and let us live vicariously through you!

Oh girl, I repped hard as freaking the fuck out goes.  In addition to screaming, there was that stupid hand shaking thing--you know, where you uselessly waggle your hands up and down because something is so awful?  I was thiiiiiiis close to calling hubs to come get me as I was about to break out into terror sobbing.  Not my best moment.  Thankfully rationality took over and I realized I would get further away from it if I kept going as opposed to stopping there and waiting for a ride.  But that route is out.  Too much underbrush next to the sidewalk.  Maybe when it's 40 degrees and December I'll try it again.

And I totally ordered them, I could not help myself.  They are my favorite color.  Now IG stalking to find ROS...