Can someone clarify for me the relationship between Daniel's VDOT and VO2max? I understand Daniels is using VDOT (based on race performance) as a surrogate for VO2max (which would require actual measurement) but I'm not certain (even after looking it up) if the scales used are intended to be the same. That is, ideally should someone with, say, a 50 VDOT also have a 50 VO2max? And, if they don't, what does that suggest? I ask because my VDOT and my VO2 max appearto be out of whack. Based my best race time, my VDOT is 48. But I've now learned that my vO2 peak is 56.9! My immediate assumption is that this proves I'm a slacker who is not living up to his racing potential (big surprise) but I'm open to other interpretations. Background: by some odd circumstances not of my own making, I had a chance last week to take a vO2 max test for a nominal fee. This involved wearing a mask attached to a machine that measures oxygen/CO2 while running with a HRM on a treadmill at increasing speeds and inclines. The test was done at a fitness/training place used by an acquaintance who is a professional trainer (so it’s reputable and reliable). I just received my results. My vO2 peak was 56.9 and my HR peak was 167; neither are max values since the test is not intended to get you to “run ‘til you puke,” just until you reach a painful level that you would not be able to sustain for much longer. I was given a breakdown of suggested heart rate zones to use for training. The zones are close to what I've been doing but they suggest that I run a little too hard, especially on tempo runs. Overall, though, no big surprise--except for that vO2 peak number.

Me too

http://www.coacheseducation.com/endur/jack-daniels-nov-00.htm

"VDOT is an adjusted V02max (which may or may not match a laboratory-generated V02max), which tells you how you might race for other distances (in the row, associated with the same VDOT), and also tells you how first to perform different types of training (Table 2 provides the training-intensity information)" Uh...but what does this mean? Why might the numbers match...or not? The best I can find is from Running Formula (p. 29) where he says the most logical reason for a gap between VO2 max and performance is poor economy and "a simple lack of determination (guts)"! Is there more? ETA: Also, does this mean that following VDOT numbers in training just encourages gutlessness?! (You ran below your potential, determined VDOT from that performance, and now train at that sub-par level.) If you have it, shouldn't you really be following your VO2 number?

few rambling comments: errr, tramps, you can put yourself in good company. for instance, lance has a measured vo2max of 85, yet his recent 2:40-something marathon gives him a vdot of only around 60. he's a slacker just like you!!!! you skipped over the first part of that sentence, the running economy part, too quickly. it's key. all of these predictors assume that your running economy scales just like haile gebrselassie's and el g's running economy. the truth is it doesn't. and even then, the predictors assume that haile's scales with michael johnson's... it doesn't. maybe daniels is a little different, since his predictors don't use the wr times but rather some slower function of speed vs. distance. but still, running economy is key, maybe just as important as guts. lance tested his vo2max on a bike, something he built his body to do. his body is clearly more efficient at cycling than at running. and this can change with distance. using daniels tables, i'm clearly more efficient running a half marathon than a full. i lack a real understanding of what this means, but i think it is muscle balance, joint flexibility, etc. if my ankle were in better shape and more flexible, i could transfer energy more efficiently with each stride. or if i used my quads/hams in a slghtly different way, i could run a marathon with more efficiency. there must be some way to measure this, but i don't know much about it. except that it's important... so stretching, drills, strengthening, etc must play important roles. because there is so much debate about all of this, i think no one has figured it out yet. your last question about training paces is another tough one. clearly as you train, you want to increase your vo2max and your vdot. so the paces that are listed should just be ballpark paces. as the weeks go by, ideally you would see steady improvement... it never works that way of course, it's always up/down/steady/flat/down, etc. so my take on this is to run my recovery runs easy, but to run my hard workouts by feel mostly, keeping the target pace in mind, but remembering that i want to go faster eventually and being open to that possibility in each workout. this can be where a good coach can make all the difference... you (or coach) needs to recognize when to push harder than your target, and when to ease back. it's very individual and sometimes mentally challenging. ok, rambling concluded.

I think Daniels is explaining that you're actual race performances tend to be worse than your V02 max would suggest. This could be for many reasons including poor running economy, tiredness, over training, under training, poor pacing, not enough speed work/interval training, weight, low pain tolerance etc etc. For instance, your V02 max may suggest that in perfect conditions, with the maximum amount of effort, you may be capable of a 21 minute 5K but your PR may actually be 22:30. He is simply suggesting that your race pace should be based on your actual race performances rather than some theoretical formula. When you think about it basing your race pace on experience rather than theory makes a lot of sense.

It seems to me that when v02 max is ahead of vdot it can mean 1 of 2 things or both. Someone who doesn’t run as many training miles as they are capable of is not going to have as high of a vdot as they could otherwise. Someone who has a higher pct of fast twitch muscle fibers than slow twitch would be another. As far as training paces, I think it’s possible to go overboard with the “run by feel” approach. I’m with Daniels all the way on basing workout paces on current race form. Although I don’t use vdot, I use a very similar approach under my coach “Tinman”. At the beginning of a workout I have a pace that I will try to run. After getting into the workout I might end up going 2-3 sseconds a mile faster or slower than planned, but try to stay very close to that range. That’s were the “feel” comes into play—whether to run exactly at planned pace or a couple seconds slower or faster. To vary any more than that because of how I feel is a mistake, imo, and won’t give me the same benefit. If you are basing your paces on current race form rather than goal pace, you are probably not going to have many days where they are going to be too hard or too easy for you to benefit from, or days where they are too difficult. There are many runners who feel like hammering away at paces that will do them more harm than good and there are other runners on the opposite end the scale.