I have been running a lot recently. I love to run, although I have never really followed any kind of formal training plan. I may be interested in adding speedwork, but not to the detriment of my running enjoyment. My questions are:
What are your thoughts on speedwork?
What do you do (tempos, intervals, progressions, fartlek, etc.)?
Do you find speedwork enjoyable?
I'll bite. Back when I used to do speedwork, I liked it. Especially on mornings like this one, with a fine drizzle and cooler temperatures....ahhh just perfect. I was sniffing the rain soaked air this morning, actually missing speedwork, believe it or not. But I'm just not ready.
First - you will get better answers on the general running forum. All the fast guys are there.
http://www.runningahead.com/forums/forum/e156b4159be84f8e96fec5f2b86b9000
I personally liked 8 x 400m. I did 6 x 1 mile and it knocked me out for a whole week - Guess I ran it too fast. Before I got sick I was only doing race pace tempos (10K or HMP), gradually increasing to longer ones. Builds "strength/stamina". It was working. Tempos are fun because you really get into a "groove" until you run out of air.
Berger does lots of speedwork, maybe he can comment.
"During a marathon, I run about two-thirds of the time. That's plenty." - Margaret Davis, 85 Ed Whitlock regarding his 2:54:48 marathon at age 73, "That was a good day. It was never a struggle."
I love speedwork. Best way I know of to sharpen yourself, and the 2nd best way to get faster (the first being, of course, "run a bunch"). My bread-and-butter interval is a 8x1200 @ 10k-ish pace, with a slow 400 between each.
But you've opened a real can o' worms here, and I have to get back into the shop.
So, yeah. I have to punt to Breger or CNY, or Ribs....they know their stuff.
Try 'em. You'll like 'em. Walt
Prince of Fatness
Tempos are a good place to start with some faster running. I run by time and feel so I really don't like to get into the numbers. For tempos it usually equates to 40-50% of a race. My half marathon PR is 1:36 and I usually run 45 minute tempos at that effort. I prefer to run tempos for at least 30 minutes, anything less and I could run long intervals with short recovery.
Most of the intervals I run are around 10K effort with short recovery. I run these by minutes as well. A staple workout is 6x4 minutes at 10K effort with 90 second recoveries. This translates to 1K for those who run them by distance. I may do some faster intervals to sharpen just before a short race but don't really do them much.
A good thread on intervals is here. Within that thread Jim Howe recommended that as older folks we get more bang for the buck running longer, slower intervals with short recoveries. Works for me.
It never hurts to throw in some strides or maybe fast finish a run on occasion. Variety in pace is good as long as most of it is slow easy and you are recovering.
Hope that helps.
Not at it at all.
Marathon Maniac #3309
I love speedwork too, like Walt
My favorite is 8 - 1000 Meter repeats at near 5K pace (-30 seconds) , with 1 minute jog recovery.....I love the track, and running around it knowing my exact distance as I go. I haven't really done much speed work for a while because of training for a 50K, but can't wait to hit the track again soon after the race.
Just my 2 cents, and other will chime in with many other kinda speed workouts too
TimBo
Running has given me the courage to start, the determination to keep trying, and the childlike spirit to have fun along the way - Run often and run long, but never outrun your Joy of running!
I have to admit I don't know that I "like" speedwork. But I don't really dislike it either. I more consider it sort of a "necessary evil". If I want to get faster and build stamina, I must mix up the pace by running faster some days.
For marathon training, IMO, the best distance length for speedwork is 1000m or 1200m, with 1 minute of very slow jog recovery between each. And the best pace for them is 10K pace or so, no faster. Run by "feel" - Comfortably hard is a good way to think of the pace. And don't do speedwork more than once or twice a week. Once you get up to 1600m (1 mile) repeats and/or run them at 5K pace (or faster), you've crossed over into diminishing returns. You may do more work, but are you getting proportional increased benefits to go along with it?
Now if your goals are fast 5K's or 10K's, you need to run them faster. But my speedwork tends to be for marathons where real, raw speed is not worth much in the overall scheme of things. It doesn't help me to be a great sprinter if I can't make it past 20 miles.
When you first start out with speedwork you will typically run less distance, fewer repeats, and longer recovery intervals. As you get in better shape, the distance and number of repeats will go up and the rest time should go down. Always try to make sure you can complete all the planned repeats, without being wiped out for days afterward. If you cannot, back off on something the next time.
I am not surprised that Enke would feel wiped out from her 6 x 1 mile repeats - especially if she ran them very fast. If we suppose 7:45 secs/ mile, that equates to 46 minutes 30 seconds of hard work. That's a toughie for sure. Good, solid, tempo work should last for approximately 30 to 40 minutes. Compare her total workout time to her 8 x 400m - approximately 15 minutes of harder work. BIG difference.
"Some are the strong, silent type. You can't put your finger on exactly what it is they bring to the table until you run without them and then you realize that their steadiness fills a hole that leaks energy in their absence." - Kristin Armstrong
Craneium,
What are your goals in possibly adding speedwork. Do you just want to get "faster", or do you have specific race distances in mind?
Speedwork can be enjoyable, but it can also be very demanding. It depends on what type (tempo/intervals, etc) you are doing, what pace, and also how you feel that particular day. Speedwork done too fast/too many intervals, is generally not that enjoyable, but speedwork done "properly' can be very enjoyable, especially knowing that is helping you reach your goal.
I would recommend just starting out with some "informal" types of speedwork. Do a run where you gradually get faster, or run a few miles in the middle at a faster pace (similar to a tempo). Try some strides, or a simple fartlek, alternating between faster and slower paces. Just to see if speedwork is for you
. Bylls post that he just added states it best. Speedwork is a necessary part of a training plan, if you goal is to get faster and build stamina.
Marathon Maniac #957
And you guys are just going to let this one go by?
Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."
I'm letting it go . But this is a great thread on the purposes of intervals.
I just started doing speedwork a few weeks ago on the track. Last night I did a descending ladder, 1200m, 1000m, 800m, 600m, 400m with active rest in between each interval. It was fun. Another real benefit is improving running form. I'm consciously trying to lengthen my stride, particularly on the shorter intervals. I generally run with compact, quick strides, which is good but I feel like I can't increase turnover much more so the only way to get faster is to lengthen my stride.The track gives me the opportunity to feel it.
I had a real breakthrough last night where I was able to lengthen my stride without a perceived increase in effort or negatively impacting my landing. I felt faster without feeling like I was increasing effort. It felt amazing. Now I just need to do it consistently. I also like tempo runs. And of course, hill repeats are speedwork in disguise.
denise
I agree Holly, I'll be careful. Oh, your injury sounds painful . Glad you mentioned it - I hear about more injuries coming from the track than anything else. What I usually hear a lot are pulled/torn hammies. I don't know if you've ever read Jim2's running page. Lots of good articles on stride mechanics and stuff.
I also read right here on RA from people much smarter than I that the best speedwork is hills and tempos until you're consistently 40 mpw or more. Then choose intervals that apply to what you're training for. For me, it's really just about learning what fast feels like.
Denise, I also go with my running club. It's coached and we assemble into groups based on avg pace which makes it a lot of fun.
This pretty much sums up my feelings about speedwork. It's not something I generally enjoy until it's over. I'm not convinced you need to do any speedwork on the track to run a fast marathon. I think you can get by with tempos, MP runs, and long progression runs and still run a fast marathon. I agree that fartlek or tempo running is a good place to start to add some speed and these types of runs don't require you to seek out a track or really alter your usual schedule much. I also think these types of speedwork are much more enjoyable to do by yourself than track intervals. If you are able to go to the track with your running club, the added bonus of running with others makes speedwork much more fun. For me, trying to run a bunch of intervals on a track by myself is about as unenjoyable as it gets.
Meg
Once a runner . . .
Hurray! It's jdmom3! She knows of what she speaks when it comes to running and running smokin' fast! (AND can beat the fast guys on the general running forum)
SO good to see you Meg.
I tried posting a lengthier message about speed work and the formatting went haywire. So I'll just agree with jdmom3.
Fartlek is a Swedish word for speed PLAY. I think that's key, make it fun and use play in your thinking when you want speed. Charge the hills on a favorite loop, fly down the downhills like a kid would on other runs, run mailbox to mailbox (every other one) as hard as you can. tempo runs, fartlek runs and hill repeats are my speed work favorites. I do less and less track work these days since my focus is the marathon and too much interval work on the track has left me injured and no faster----in fact my fastest half-marathons and marathons were faster after training cycles with mostly tempo running and some striders in runs every now and then.
It's enjoyable for me when it's not work and instead it's about switching up paces to avoid a rut and strengthening other muscles. Getting on the track now and then will improve my running form and economy as others have said here, but it's by no means mandatory. If you are having fun with your running now, I might throw in some unstructured speed segments into what you are doing already. No need for a rigid plan.
My .02