Wow, this group is really active again, cool!  Nice to see everyone got out over the weekend!

I did a beautiful 26 mile trail run Saturday and an easy 30 minutes on Sunday.  This morning I ran up a local mountain with a friend and tried meditation on the summit as the sun rose.  My mind apparently can't shut off... sitting still for 20 minutes was much like sitting in a room listening to 45 televisions all tuned to different channels!  The sunrise was pretty nice though. 

Hope everyone has a great (or at least tolerable) Monday!

  - Chris

My mind apparently can't shut off... sitting still for 20 minutes was much like sitting in a room listening to 45 televisions all tuned to different channels!  The sunrise was pretty nice though. 

 

I can totally relate!  One of the main reasons that I run on trails (well, besides the fact that the scenery is better and it is easier on my body) is because I find it difficult to shut my brain down while running.  If it is too easy, I start counting steps and do other stupid things.  The more technical the trail, the more I need to concentrate.  I compare it to driving a vehicle with a manual transmission instead of automatic (which I also prefer)

I ran 2.5 tonight.  It is tough because I am still struggling with my health issues, but that is not going to stop anytime soon.  I saw the Dr. today and ended up with referrals to two other Dr.s and radiology.  Sigh.  I think this is going to take a while.  However, I am determined to NOT let it stop me.  I am going to walk or run or do what I can while we try to figure this out.

But enough about me.  Chris, I am glad you enjoyed the sunrise and I bet the surrounding scenery was great as well.

Flower, I KNEW you are hardcore.  Good job on getting out there and doing what you can.  It will come back to you.  I really enjoy reading your posts too.  I learn alot from what you say.

Leslie, I know you are going to do great for AR50.  You are such a disciplined trainer.  Great job on the back-to-back long runs.  Are you feeling it today?

Greg, are you able to barefoot run these days or is it too cold up there?

I hope the week is starting well for everyone.  We have a happy household because my husband killed a nice buck this morning.  Venison is on its way!

Cheers,

Kitrin

If you all are interested, there's a great discussion going on in the Masters Thread re nutrition.  It started out as alternatives to gels for marathoners, but has sort of evolved.

 

Kitrin - Glad you got out there.  Keep it up. It'll help with whatever medical issues you have going on.

 

I felt really good today.  However, it was a rest day and I didn't have to run. 

Leslie. I can't wait to take the time and read that thread - I am very interested in finding alternatives to the gels. Thank you for the heads up. I read in one of your threads that you like cold potatoes for your runs, is that right? At my one and only 50K the old potatoes with salt at the Aid Stations was my favorite. Unfortunately they had quartered the potatoes so I couldn't take a whole potato with me while leaving the aid station - that's what I had envisioned. I just had to spend a little more time standing at the aid station while eating rather than taking it to go. Do all aid stations have the quarter potatoes or can you get them whole?

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Again, great job with your back to back. Taking the day off from running yesterday sounds like a very reasonable way to start the recovery process. Let us know what else you do this week and in the coming weeks in prep for your first 50miler. We learn so much from you.

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Recovery from Half is going well. I feel good. Cross trained at the gym this morning. EWalked last night before going to sleep. I appreciate those of you who said walking is a good supplement to running - also, Kelly, I am practising my arm swing especially on the uphills; gotta become a faster walker for my next hilly ultra!!

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A few days ago I stepped on the scale in my bathroom. I was very happy to see that my weight had dropped back to what used to be my normal weight for the last couple of years. Some time during the spring I gained 8 pounds and I had not been able to shake them. I have been very irritated with the weight gain as my clothes didn't fit well and I didn't feel as good about myself in general. I was quite surprised to see that I had lost weight. I ask what I have done differently? I am not sure that this has anything to do with it but it could be a relatively small change in my diet:

I am gluten intolerant so I am on a glutefree diet (since 2004). It had been 5 years of not eating oatmeal as oats have been considered to contain gluten due to cross contamination. In Europe, the celiac community have been eating glutenfree oats for many years now. Recently, I noticed some oats in the healthfood store that said GLUTENFREE OATS on the bag. Well, of course they are 3 times as expensive as regular oats - but they sparked my curiosity. I thought about it for a while and one day decided it was time for me to try glutenfree oats. It's been approximately one month of enjoying a big bowl of oatmeal for breakfast. I eat after I work out - not before. I cook the oatmeal with water on the stove top, add a handful of fresh cranberries, and some slices of fresh apple, and some cinnamon (no sugar).

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Could it be this change to my diet that has helped me loose the weight? Is there something about cinnamon being said to aid weightloss? Oatmeal? Do you have a similar experience?

Here's my post, if you're interested.

Well, I might as well throw my 2 cents worth in and see what sticks.  I'm coming at this with 50k and longer trail running in mind, but my coach (who has completed triathalons, marathons, century bike rides, ultra trail runs) and I have talked extensively about this.  But as he says, each person is a science of one, and you have to figure out what works best for you.

It's recommended that for any long distance/endurance activity, you begin taking in fuel after an hour, BUT, you should be drinking from the start.  If you don't, then it's harder for the stomach to digest the fuel when you start taking it in.  For me, fuel is solid food and Clif shot blocks.  So much blood is going to the legs, that there's not as much to help the stomach, which is why dumping solids on it with no fluid in there to help can cause nausea.  My solid food preferences are fig bars, Clif Mojo Mountain Mix bars, bananas, boiled potatoes, and sometimes PBJ.  I don't do pretzel 'cause my mouth gets so dry, and chips (i.e. Ruffles) are too greasy and nauseate me.

Remember with Clif shots (and I presume gels?), you have to drink fluids after eating one to make them work.

The maximum amount of calories a body can digest in an hour is 260, and the average amount of carbs is 40 or so.  You have to take into consideration not only the "solids," but your "liquids," as well.  An excellent source of carbs are boiled potatoes with skins on.  I carry a sandwich baggy with me that I put food in from the aid stations, zip it up, then either stuff it in my waist pack, or split the food down the  middle of the bag and hook it over the belt of my pack (so that part of the food in the baggy is on each side of the belt).  It bumps around, but it doesn't bother me.

Re S-caps/salt pill, it's recommended that you take one per 20 oz bottle of fluids.  If it's a hot day, you may need up to 2 per bottle.  Even if you don't feel like you're sweating a lot (because it's cold), you are.   Some stomachs can't' tolerate the salt pills, so Endurolytes are another option.

I have a sensitive stomach, as well, and I've resorted to using the nausea medication I got after my gall bladder surgery.  It's called Phenergan.  I take half at least 20 minutes before I start a long run, and sometimes, halfway through, I have to take another.  It's made a big difference.

Also, nausea can be caused from being low on salt (which can also cause diarrhea), not having enough fuel in you (low on carbs/calories), or too many calories (which was my case this past weekend).  In an effort to get a better handle on all this, I  make up my baggies of food the night before my long run and mark on each what is in it and how many calories.  I calculate the amount of calories in each, keeping in mind the amount of fluids I will be taking in, as well.  I am also going to go back to marking my bottles at 6 oz increments.  Every 20 minutes, I will eat a little bit of something and drink 6 oz of fluids, with the goal being that at the end of an hour (beginning in the second hour) I've consumed approximately 260 calories.  Somehow, by sheer luck I presume, I managed this consumption as SOB and wasn't doing the dread death march at the end.

I don't know how well all this translates for road marathons, but I do know that is very much they way it's done in trail running.  If you have a well put-together trail run, it's a veritable smorgasboard at the aid stations.  As far as running and chewing, I take the minute or so to walk and eat, knowing that in doing so, I will (hopefully) avoid the death march.

So that's my 2 cents.

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I'd also like to add the following to my previous post:

I've started eating a serving of oatmeal about 2 hrs before my long runs on Saturdays (no milk or butter, just a little bit of sugar).  This gives me enough fuel for the first hour of running.  It's definitley made a difference.

Also because of my back-to-back long runs which I've started and will be doing for some time, on my 2nd long run on Sundays (13 miles right now but will be increasing), I not only have my fluids (Succeed Ultra) which I am drinking every 20 minutes from the start, but I am ingesting 1 Clif shot block every 20 minutes after the first hour.  Again, I've felt the difference.  My coach has recommended, however, that because I am starting out in somewhat of a deficit from the day before, if I don't eat 2 hrs prior to running, then I should start taking in fuel - not just fluids - from the get go.

I realize that what I am doing right now is a bit extreme, but I know some of you turn around do somewhat lengthy runs the day after your long runs, or even do a significant amount of cross training.  It might help to play around and add the extra fuel to see if you feel a difference.  Although I don't consume the Ultra during my XT days, because those workouts are up to 1.5 hrs in length, I drink at least 20 oz of water (if not more) and upon completion, down a large glass of milk with Olvaltine.  It really has helped me "bounce back" after those workouts.

Thanks for the many good tips on how to fuel and hydrate during a long-run. I also use Cliff Shot Blocks during my long training runs and used them on my 50K as well (I have very limited experience with Ultras). I think the main sugar component of Shot Blocks is Rice Syrup which is the reason I can tolerate them despite my many food intolerances (most sports drinks/gels etc contain dextrine, dextrose, or maltodextrine which are corn derivatives; I have a corn-intolerance which means those products are off limits for me, this includes Gatorade). The Cliff Shot Blocks have been a great addition to my long distance running. Before that (during my first Marathon) I depended on a home made drink that consisted mostly of water with some OJ and pure maple syrup added. It worked but it did not work well. Also, I depended on a friend to hand me pre-mixed bottles at certain intervals of the course. Most times I don't have a friend who is willing to do that so it is better to be able to carry the shot blocks and take water from the aid stations along the way (regular road marathon). 

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On my 50K I ate real food in addition to the shot blocks. I prefer the real food as I think the shot blocks are pure sugar (candy) and not very healthy. However, shot blocks store easily in Race Ready shorts and dissolve in water. I don't like how they stick to my teeth. I cut each shot block bag in the middle and put it in my race ready pockets - they are easy to squeeze out one at the time directly into the mouth while running or walking. Some of the flavors of shot blocks have more electrolytes added than the others - I am assuming that you can run w/o s-caps when taking those particular shot blocks?! I use s-caps as well as Nuun-Tablets for electrolytes and to make the water more palatable. Nuun tablets are also easy to carry and they dissolve in water. Perfect!

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I may have to become a little more systematic with the measurements and timing the frequency of intake of all of those things? I kind of try to do it frequently w/o taking too much salt etc but I haven't been as systematic as you, Leslie. I like your champion attitude. Attention to the details is what separates the winner from the average Jane.

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I tend to err on the side of Buddo... eat whatever, whenever.

A couple beers at the aid stations seem to really go down well too.