Roll,

Thanks for believing in me. To answer your question, I'd say that the Strength/Tempos were the hardest to recover from. But also those are the workouts I enjoyed the most. But keep in mind, I was doing them at much faster paces because I was on the Half plan.

Also, taking a close look at my log, I probably wasn't running the easy days easy enough, which might have led to the overtraining.

 

I think this is most of what is fueling your indecision. You have the knowledge, experience and, most of all, ability to handle any of these plans. The question in risk mitigation. I believe that certain body types flourish with different stimuli (workouts). Which workouts felt like positive progress and which ones felt like they took longer to re-build afterward?

 

From the outside looking in, I would steer toward the modified Pfitz. Good luck, the next race you crush is gonna be that much more worth it!

Thanks for the vote of confidence One and Roll!

CBus:  I think Hanson may work for you with the marathon plan...think about how much slower the strength runs would be!  Hear great, great things about PFitz though!

I am watching Boston live right now and have everyone in the OR watching too...so cool!

I'm not asking about how to get ready for training. I'm asking what people think are the relative values of quantity and quality, give that my speed is sufficient to meet my goal, but my endurance isn't.

CBus, I think you are looking at this the wrong way.  Speed and endurance are two sides of the same coin (unless you are talking about speeds at very very short distances or endurance over very very long distances, much longer than a marathon).  Increasing your endurance is just increasing your ability to hold a speed over that distance.  The faster you run, the lower your endurance.  The longer you run, the lower your pace.  Two sides of the same coin.

Don't overthink this.  Someone developed a list once of the most important types of training for marathoning.  I can't find it now, but I know for certain that total weekly miles was number 1.  After that, I'm pretty sure LT training and long runs were the next 2, but I'm not sure of the order, and then came stuff like hills and speed intervals (5k pace or so).   But the point is, if you do the miles per week, your ability to hold a pace over a distance will improve, as will your ability to increase distance at a specific speed.  You throw in some variety so your body doesn't get used to one thing and stop adapting.  That's all I got.

I'm not really thinking of them as two different things. My question is more about the fact that I have a certain amount of time and energy I can devote to training, and so how is that time and energy best used.  But on the other hand, though closely related, speed and endurance are different. For example, yesterday, though I could not sustain it, I had no problem running in the 7:50s. It felt very easy. I just ran out of gas. Contrast that to my PR race, where I could go faster than 8:00s, except for the odd mile, which is why right from the start I threw 1:45 out as a goal. But I easily held my pace through 13 miles. In my view, that tells me that whatever gains were made during my 12 weeks of training, it went to increase my speed-endurance, and not as much to my overall endurance. All that considered, my question is about which plan helps me devote the time and energy I have at my disposal to the area I need work, i.e. overall endurance.

 

CBus, I think you are looking at this the wrong way.  Speed and endurance are two sides of the same coin (unless you are talking about speeds at very very short distances or endurance over very very long distances, much longer than a marathon).  Increasing your endurance is just increasing your ability to hold a speed over that distance.  The faster you run, the lower your endurance.  The longer you run, the lower your pace.  Two sides of the same coin.

 

Don't overthink this.  Someone developed a list once of the most important types of training for marathoning.  I can't find it now, but I know for certain that total weekly miles was number 1.  After that, I'm pretty sure LT training and long runs were the next 2, but I'm not sure of the order, and then came stuff like hills and speed intervals (5k pace or so).   But the point is, if you do the miles per week, your ability to hold a pace over a distance will improve, as will your ability to increase distance at a specific speed.  You throw in some variety so your body doesn't get used to one thing and stop adapting.  That's all I got.

I would stir this time to Pfitz and modify the speedwork as needed.

Oh, so here's a story from yesterday's race.

The course is an out and back. And on the way back, one female decided to cut a corner. Basically, the course on the way out had a right turn, so instead of going to the appropriate point and turning left, she cut across a baseball diamond. Now, I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she had to use the restroom or was planning on not finishing, so I'm willing to entertain the idea that she wasn't straight out cheating. But the problem for her was that the race did not end at the same place that it started. So, the course did not actually turn left on the way back at the same place that it turned right on the way out--got that? We passed the original bend, and after quite a bit later, a left turn, which then took us to the track where the race ended. Long story short, I'm not sure what happened to that woman. But if she was cheating, then defeated her own effort because instead of making the course shorter, she ended up farther away from the end--in fact, she ended up totally off the course (which is probably no course marshals were stationed there).

Well, I'm getting nothing done today.  Boston is taking up all my attention.  My fast birds are all finished.  All were under 3:10 with one sub 3!  Still have other friends on the course.  I can't concentrate on anything else!

Sprinkles:  Yeah, I was hoping someone else would win too just to break the monotony. 

Most of my friends but one have finished.  So exciting.