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Advice on day before first race? (Read 871 times)

    So, the idea that someone who runs a 5K at an 11:30 pace should be out there running easy runs at a 13:00 pace just isn't accurate.

    Not necessarily.  Unfortunately, 13-minute-mile pace isn't that slow for many folks.  You are correct that the beginning runners tend to run their races much closer pace to their training run then more experienced runner--that's what I said too.  However another factor is that they just don't know how to get their "speed" right.  In fact, I personally feel that the training pace for someone who "races" 11:30 pace IS around 13:00.  Maybe even a little bit slower!

     

    I just received an e-mail this morning from a friend of mine.  We've been corresponding the last several years on training and general running scene in the US-Japan.  He's the 3rd fastest non-African marathon runner in history (including Khannouchi who at the time when he ran 2:05 was an American) with 2:06:16.  In 2000 Sydney Olympics 10000m, he was the first non-African at 6th place.  His marathon career average is about 2:08 (he didn't run too many but his 4th place performance at Helsinki World Championships slowed it down a bit...).  To prepare for a marathon, he would spend first 2 months piling up mileage, or kilometers, about 150 miles a week.  He runs them at 8-minute-mile pace.

     

      Great information, Nobby. Thanks.

       

      Of course, I want to run far and fast. Obviously my first target is to run a marathon successfully. The next is to achieve a BQ. As people say, you only know your capacity after you run several races and have some experience. For me, I have none on marathon, so I have no idea what running 26.2 miles means. Since so many people follow Pfitz's plans, I believe 55/30 will work for me, so I stick on it. 3:30 is just totally a rough estimation based on my 5K training. I thought if I could run 10 miles with pace at 7:40 and still have enough capacity to run further, I think I should be able to run a marathon at pace 8:00 per mile after another 7 months training. After 2 month training, I can run 13 miles at pace 7:43 and still have capacity to run further at the rate.

       

      After a few months training, I think I understand what pace is tempo and what is easy. Certainly I don't run those Sunday long runs with my maximum effort. At the end of the runs, I was comfortable enough and could run further if needed. So I think the pace is right and on my fitness level.

       

       

      I readily recall running a 15 mile race at my easy pace when I had been running about 6 months and I barely finished.

       

       That is exactly what I am concerned about. I need my base built strong enough.

      5k - 20:56 (Sept 30, 2012)

      7k - 28:40 (Nov 18, 2012)

      10k trial - 43:08 (Mar 29, 2013), 42:05 (May 05, 2013)

      FM - 3:09:28 (May 19, 2013)

        To prepare for a marathon, he would spend first 2 months piling up mileage, or kilometers, about 150 miles a week.  He runs them at 8-minute-mile pace.

         

        Would it be more favorable if I slow down my pace and cover more mileage? But I don't like to run 2 hours every day.

        5k - 20:56 (Sept 30, 2012)

        7k - 28:40 (Nov 18, 2012)

        10k trial - 43:08 (Mar 29, 2013), 42:05 (May 05, 2013)

        FM - 3:09:28 (May 19, 2013)

          Sorry Lisa-Marie, I hijack your thread. :-)

          5k - 20:56 (Sept 30, 2012)

          7k - 28:40 (Nov 18, 2012)

          10k trial - 43:08 (Mar 29, 2013), 42:05 (May 05, 2013)

          FM - 3:09:28 (May 19, 2013)

            David:

             

            Here's another story.  I had a clinic with Rod Dixon a few years back in Victoria, BC.  During the talk, he said when he was "training for Munich Olympics, he would go out and run for 3 hours..."  It was in 1972, he was 21 years old and running for a 1500m where he won the bronze medal.  After his talk, I asked him, because all the literature about his training back in 1980s when he was dominating US road scene, that he is "not a mega-mileage runner".  He replied; "Yeah, but it was only 12-15 miles!!"  It may not have been exactly 3 hours but he said the course he was running was very hilly and he might even stop on the top of the hill and yell! ;o)  If you simply calculate, he was "running at about 14-15 minute per mile pace.  And he ran 3:54 for the mile, 13:17 for 5k and 2:08:59 to win NYC Marathon.

             

               

              That is the question I am always asking. What is the race pace?

               

               

              David, I think you can and probably have based your training paces on a all out 5K race time. I think that is wise assuming you ran your best.  BUT, as you continue to train over time, it is also wise to throw in a 5K, 10K or a half to monitor your fitness and adjust training paces if necessary and perhaps goal time for an upcoming race.  Maybe you do have the potential to do better than 3:30 but if your first marathon, any time is a PR so it is wise not to overestimate your fitness. As discussed by Nobby earlier, long run faster than marathon pace in a sense are a "race".  Even a long run at marathon pace can be taxing depending on your level of fitness and base. 

               

              There is also a bit of a misconception that your legs need to feel springy on race day. You can perform great and PR without springy legs.

              Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

              TxDiverMom


                 In fact, I personally feel that the training pace for someone who "races" 11:30 pace IS around 13:00.  Maybe even a little bit slower!

                 

                You just described me perfectly!  11:28 was the pace of my one and only (so far) 5k.  My training paces are 13:30-14 for most of my long runs and 12:30-13:00 for what I call pace runs.  They are usually 4-5 miles.  I hope to run my HM next weekend (12/9) at or below 13:40.  We'll see how it goes.  My plan is to run 7 this weekend (or maybe 8) with 4 at 13:30 and then see how fast I can go for the 2nd half of my run.  I'm hoping to do the 2nd half at 13:00 or below.  We'll see what happens. 

                 

                My plan for next week (thanks to LTH) is to run Monday about 3 miles easy (about half my normal run) and run about 2 on Wed., easy.  On Thursday, I'll probably just job about 1.5-2 miles, very easy.  Off Friday and Sat. and HM on Sun.  Is this a reasonable schedule? 

                  You just described me perfectly!  11:28 was the pace of my one and only (so far) 5k.  My training paces are 13:30-14 for most of my long runs and 12:30-13:00 for what I call pace runs.  They are usually 4-5 miles.  I hope to run my HM next weekend (12/9) at or below 13:40.  We'll see how it goes.  My plan is to run 7 this weekend (or maybe 8) with 4 at 13:30 and then see how fast I can go for the 2nd half of my run.  I'm hoping to do the 2nd half at 13:00 or below.  We'll see what happens. 

                   

                  My plan for next week (thanks to LTH) is to run Monday about 3 miles easy (about half my normal run) and run about 2 on Wed., easy.  On Thursday, I'll probably just job about 1.5-2 miles, very easy.  Off Friday and Sat. and HM on Sun.  Is this a reasonable schedule? 

                   

                  It is more of a challenge to give advice if we can't see your log. With that being said, my feeling is that you are a low mileage runner. I would not overtaper as you risk losing some fitness. The exception is that if you were run down.  I would do your normal run Monday.  3 on Wed easy with some short pick me ups (striders). Run 3 miles on Friday easy. Saturday go for a brisk walk or hit the elliptical for 20 min.

                  Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                  TxDiverMom


                    It is more of a challenge to give advice if we can't see your log. With that being said, my feeling is that you are a low mileage runner. I would not overtaper as you risk losing some fitness. The exception is that if you were run down.  I would do your normal run Monday.  3 on Wed easy with some short pick me ups (striders). Run 3 miles on Friday easy. Saturday go for a brisk walk or hit the elliptical for 20 min.

                     

                    I didn't know my log wasn't public.  However, it wouldn't do you any good.  I only have a handfull of entries.  My logs are on nike+ and I have to load them manually.  I don't think there's even a month's worth on this site.  I normally run 4 days per week, usually 6/5/3 or 6/4/3 (MWTh) with a long run on Sat. or Sun of 8-10.  There is NO WAY I would consider running or even brisk walking the day before my half.  The day before will just be normal activity, packet pickup, etc.  I am always off the day before my long runs and 2 days before, I've usually done a short (3 mile) and easy recovery jog. 

                     

                    Honestly, as someone mentioned up thread...maybe Nobby?  rest seems to be more important.  My weekly mileage is around 25 with my long runs between 8 and 10.  Thursdays, I'm really tired.  I get my 3 recovery miles in and am zapped.  I really feel like the rest will benefit me more than anything.  It's hard for me to believe that 3-4 days of lesser running will change my fitness level either way.  I feel like being well rested will have more of an impact that anything.  When I am well rested, my long runs seem easy.  When I am tired, they are very difficult.  This is something I wouldn't feel comfortable changing a day before the race. 

                     

                    I actually feel reasonably prepared for a old (51) new runner (walking for a little over a year, running since the spring) doing my first HM.  I rarely missed a schedule training day.  I won't be fast, but I'm not aiming for fast.  I'm aiming for a 13:30-13:40 pace for the HM.  I don't know if it's normal or not, but I find that the 2 things that most affect my pace are my overall state of being tired or rested and the temperature.  I'll be fine if it's in the 50's!  70's and I'll be dead!

                      This is a learning experience for you so the race experience will be good. Any time will be a PR.  You can analyze your training for the next half. I will say that if you are zapped after a 3 mile recovery run, you probably ran your previous runs too hard/too fast.  You should be recovered from a Saturday long run by Monday or Tuesday at latest.  BUT, you are still in the process of building your base if only running since spring. It is a process that takes more than 6 months. One year from now, you will be much stronger aerobically and probably a little more in tune with what your pacing is or should be. Your race times will also be much better if you stay consistent. Good luck in your half. Start conservative and finish strong Smile

                      Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                      TxDiverMom


                        I'm going to try the "start conservative, finish strong" thing on my 7-8 miler this weekend.  The reason I'm so tired by my Thursday 3 miler isn't mostly about the run...at least I don't think it is.  It's mostly that after working all week, the stress from that, running, my diet (I only eat about 1200 plus a little, maybe, because I'm still trying to lose the last 10-15 pounds...coming off, but slowly), everything, I'm always just tired by Fridays.  Fridays are my relaxation evening where I don't worry about much and have a few nice beverages.  LOL!  It's not that I'm beat after the 3 mile run, it's that I'm beat after the whole week. 

                         

                        I don't see myself running more than 5 days.  However, I didn't see myself running 4 either and I do.  I'm shocked at what we can do.  A year and 2 months ago, I was 43 pounds heavier and got tired walking for 20 min.  I've come a long way and still have a long way to go.  I'll need to do a month of 25 mile weeks in Jan. after the holidays and recovering from the HM before I begin to build my base a little more.  My problem is that I'm so slow that I don't have time for more mileage.  I'm just going to keep doing mostly easy till I get a little faster.  My goal is to get to a 12 min. mile being easy.  I think that's very doable, and probably will happen by next spring.

                         

                        Melissa

                        Kenny_Powers


                          go to the bathroom. no for real.

                          TxDiverMom


                            go to the bathroom. no for real.

                             

                            Go to another sandbox since you aren't playing nice in this one. I thought it said no questions were stupid ones!


                            Sasquatch in Public

                              I usually rest and relax and make sure I eat well. If do anything it is a very short "recovery" run or walk. Very slow pace, easy. It also depends on when the race kicks off. Early morning, I generally won't do anything the day before. Later starts maybe have a little more ability to do soemthing the day before.


                              Disney freak

                                OP here - Thanks for all the thoughts and replies.  I decided to do a test run last weekend - same time, same day. (Early on a Saturday with lots of rest and a good breakfast.)  I was able to complete the 3.1 miles without walking.  I also ran another 3.1 last night, am taking today off, and then doing some  interval runs (run .75, walk .2) tomorrow.  Probably no more than 2.5 miles.  

                                 

                                Taking off Friday, going to bed early, with none of the usual Friday night Mexican food and margarita.  I'm confident now that I can run it on Saturday, so my goal (don't laugh, please) is to get under a 13 minute pace and under a 40 minute total time.  (My test runs were at 13:05/13:02 pace)  

                                Lisa Marie

                                • first 5K on 12/8/12 - 39:14
                                • first 10K on 1/12/13 - 1:23:45
                                • upcoming races: Hypnotic Donut Dash - 1/26, Hot Chocolate 5K 2/9, Rock n Roll half relay 3/24
                                • training for Big D half on 4/14
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