Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Intl. correspondent
Marco - Cross country races can be a lot of fun since you’re mostly running against competition and not time.
Jmac - that video from John Oliver is hilarious, though he’s got a leftist bias and left out why some people prefer to die in a fire than vote the candidate running opposite Bolsonaro.
I think I should do a micro cycle with some speed in it. In the past I’ve mostly done speed endurance and easy runs.
Bro - I’ve run a few 3Ks in the past, it’s mostly balls to the wall kind of effort, go out as fast as you can and stick to it. Being out of breath is actually very exhilarating and I love fast races because there’s no chance my weak muscles will let me down (except the part where I can’t increase stride length)
Rune - Oh, the famous Cooper test, It should indeed be very similar.
Keen - there are many good marathon predictor workouts out there. Like Jmac said, if you can run 13 miles at MP at the tail end of a 75 mile week then you can keep that during the race. It seems clear to me that you don’t have a muscular deficit which could be the only thing on your way. Also, always remember MP is current Marathon pace, not target marathon pace unless you have a race to backup the faster pace.
15 miles at race pace is too much.
Corey - it depends a lot on how many portions of those long runs you did at marathon pace. How many marathon pace workouts did you do? How did you feel after those?
Your mileage is fine.
MJ - also remember to flex your abs and core in general when sprinting.You want tight, flexed yet relaxed single forward movement machine.Don’t be the flailing guy:
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Cobra Commander Keen
JMac - I've also noticed the (odd) similarities in our weather. Given the pretty massive distance between us and geographic differences I'd assume that our weather would have been much more different. I gave the "bike support during LR workout" thing a thought, and realized I could ask my brother to help out, and perhaps my SIL if he's not able to do it. Not having to carry water or stop during that 15M workout would be awesome!
CFarr - Do you have any recent races? What's your max (and resting, if you know it) HR?
Flavio - If only I knew what current marathon pace should be! Like I said a bit ago, I think 7 min/mi (4:21/km) is certainly within reach for me (and it fits with my BQ goal). Input on this?
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
I am now 8 weeks out from my Marathon attempt and want to know if you guys think a < 3:24:59 is possible for me. Not sure if any of this will be of use but here is some data on my running from May through Sept. 1,036 total miles 207 miles per month average 21 runs over 16 miles 4 runs over 20 miles race will be flat with minimal elevation change (+/- 15 to 20 ft) Temps should be in the 60's
I am now 8 weeks out from my Marathon attempt and want to know if you guys think a < 3:24:59 is possible for me.
Not sure if any of this will be of use but here is some data on my running from May through Sept.
race will be flat with minimal elevation change (+/- 15 to 20 ft)
Temps should be in the 60's
Yes, you can based off these stats I highlighted in your post.
A couple key performance indicators:
1. Have you gone up to 22 miles yet? I absolutely needed 22 mile runs to feel confident I could finish strong. The last 4 is more mentally sticking with it than it is pain.2. Have you broken 1:34:00 in a half? I typically run between 1:34 and 1:35 and I ran 3:19 last week.
3. Your mileage is 50 per week. That is sufficient for sub-3:25.
Marco - cross country can be really fun. It's really good for your strength too. I am thinking about maybe doing some more XC races next winter here.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Corey thats an excellent marathon buildup. You really need to go run a half to gauge where you are at.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Corey - yeah I'm with Piwi - a half, or even a good MP workout, would be a good race predictor. You've definitely put the work in but mileage affects everyone differently and some more than others.
I'm with Bro on including a 22 miler as well. Mine was an excellent guide and actually was a better run than the marathon itself in hindsight!! If you can run a 22 miler including a section at target MP (I did 8-10 miles but I wouldn't pretend to know as much as JMac, Keen or Piwi when it comes to marathon training) that's great prep. It does take it out of you though - my long run the following weekend was total junk!
RIP Milkman
Corey - You really do have to run a half, or at least 10 miler. All of your statistics sound good, but they don’t mean anything until you go out there and race. You can do this half anywhere from 4-6 weeks prior to your race. Even 3 if you have no choice although I think that’s cutting it close. The marathon is such a bitch and it’s nothing like other races where you can just point to some workouts and determine what you can run. They give you an idea of what’s possible, but not the full answer. I’d also say: have you done any LT work in your buildup? You mentioned a bunch of mileage stats, but haven’t heard any big workouts you’ve done. If you’ve only done endurance and no LT work, it’s even more vital that you run a race because we may see a lack of conversion in your training to race times. I would say sub 1:35 pretty much guarantees 3:25 being a reasonable time, even if you haven’t done 100 percent perfect training.
Flavio - I really hope the inflatable tube guy is actually in your garage. I could imagine you going to him, turning him on, and using his crazy antics to pump you up for your Strava segments or 3K races.
Bro - I second Piwi’s suggestion to stick around. I think you have a lot more potential at the half and full and maybe we can help you out, although I know you don’t agree with my training approach
Me - Cold took a bit of a turn for the worse with a cough developing, so I took today off. 3 years ago I kept running through something like this and it turned into pneumonia. Trying to avoid that this time. I’m a little worried though. Anyway, the guys over on sub 3 are trying to convince me to actually race my half this weekend instead of running it at MP because I can pretty much secure a PR. Probably not going to do that, and honestly with this cold it’s even in question if I can run it. I have my eye on some halfs over the winter though to go for the sub 1:19 that I think I’m capable of.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Jmac good call on the rest and totally up to you this weekend as you know your body best. I think that 15 min in the corral would make the MP run harder ( my old legs would stiffen up after the warmup as Andres alluded to ), so you wouldnt be cheating the workout, in fact it may make it harder.
It is tempting to go for sub 1.20 though. Imagine if something happened in the future and you lost fitness etc and that sub 1.20 got out of reach. Food for thought as you are killing it right now.
JMac - I agree on not pushing it with the half this weekend. I made the mistake of doing that with North Shore Half last year (I was not quite rid of my cold) and not only did I have a disappointing race, it made the next week's training pretty poor and I ended up with a slight diaphragm niggle that my osteo had to sort.
I also wasn't over my cold fully when I did relays on Saturday. The fact others were counting on me meant that opting out or taking it easy wasn't an option, but my training for the first half of this week has definitely not quite been 100%.
With NYC being your goal, in my opinion it's just not worth it unless you are definitely feeling up to full strength by the weekend. There will be tons of opportunities to run a quick half and all you really need to do is carry over your NYC marathon fitness.
JMac - Do what you think is best regarding that race, especially with that cold.
Corey - With your mileage I think you should be in good shape, almost regardless of what you’ve done so far. With 8 weeks left you have plenty of time for a solid concentrated block of training focused on getting you in race shape, something that will involve a lot of tempo and m-pace runs.
I bought into the Nike 4% hype and took the shoes for a spin tonight. I’m kind of blown away right now. With segments at both tempo and JD m-pace I somehow completed a HM in 1:40 (ok, with a poop break in the middle easy segment), and it felt very effortless. I ran two 2-mile m-pace segments preceded by a mile at tempo pace, and it almost felt like I was out for a jog when I ran 5-6 seconds faster than my most optimistic marathon prediction pace (7:25/ mile for 3:15 finish time). Of course, I don’t know if it’s the shoes or effects of taper coming or if I had an otherwise very good day, but I know for sure what shoes I’m running with in Amsterdam. I also went from being scared to try anything faster than a pace for 3:20 to thinking I pretty much have to aim faster in just one run
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Jmac - brb, I'm going to buy a gas station dummy!
Rune - I think now that you have those shoes you can run 2h01 for the marathon (that's what Nike told me .
I'm glad you liked the new shoes, you're a brave man to take them out on a fast run right off the gate.
JMac - Bummer about the cold, sounds like you're being really smart about it, though.
Rune - Glad you like the shoes! DWave has been using those and seems to like them overall, though I think she's said they can be awkward at slower paces and "handling" can be wonky around tight turns. Or perhaps I'm mis-remembering the last couple points, but I know she likes them.
DDs 2 & 3 picked up a bug a few days ago. DD2 seems to have rebounded pretty quickly, but the little one is having a bit harder time with it. Nothing serious, she just doesn't seem comfortable or full of energy and isn't sleeping well (thus DW and I aren't either). As per usual lately, I'm getting it as well. Mostly just a tired/lack of energy feeling, so hopefully it doesn't progress beyond that.
Good luck to Flavio this weekend as he tackles a real pain in the ass race! Would love to see a race recap.
JMac - Got access to the steam room anywhere in NYC? The gym I go to has one that is amazing and it helped me tremendously as I got sick a lot this year. I work in Detroit and I'm pretty much sick whenever something goes around because I work in an area with a lot of foot traffic. Get the liquids in too.
runethechamp - It seemed that every other runner had the VaporFlys at Chicago. I'm thinking about trying the Pegasus Turbo, do you know anything about that? I ran my full in the Lunaracer 4 and I'm sad they are done making them because they were such a great shoe in Nikes running line for close to a decade.
As for myself....I'm not running until next Monday. I think I finally figured out what works for me and what I should focus on for the remainder of the year and next. Endurance does not seem to be an issue anymore, but I really need a lot of work at HM and M pace. I think something like 6 miles at 6:50 pace or doing something like 2 x 4 miles at 6:50 pace with 2 minute jogs is what I should try. I did 4 miles at 6:35 pace a few weeks back with not a whole lot of effort, so I should be alright. I think the issue I had this summer was really hammering tempos and not really having any idea of what my half pace should be. I also really neglected what I do best - which is a lot of hard 200-400's and 1K reps, so my shorter races were very disappointing. Time and freak injuries were an issue this summer and I ditched those types of workouts in favor of just trying to get longer runs because my main concern was just finishing a marathon.
For next year I should probably aim for an average of 65 per week to get back into the 17's again for the 5K. Also, I'm about 6-8 lbs overweight. I need to eat better and get back into that high 150 lb. range again if I want to start sniffing some faster times.
Keen - The slowest I went in the shoes yesterday was about 8:00 pace, and that felt ok. Sharp turns are awkward for sure, but I don't mind slowing down for a couple of seconds for those.
Bro - I actually got the Peg Turbos as well and I went from not being a big fan (just feeling they didn't bring much extra for the price) to having a much more positive outlook on them last week. I used them for a T-pace workout and was very happy with them. When I first sped up I was thinking I didn't really like the way they felt, but the pace to effort ratio seemed very good. A buddy of mine in Norway had the Lunaracers as his favorite race shoes for a long time, but he got a pair of Vaporflys last year and really likes them as well. Regarding workouts, take a look at how they are done in the training programs provided by Jack Daniels, Pfitz, etc. That should give you some really good input.
Flavio - I can certainly run 2:01, but only for parts of the marathon
Bro/Rune I loved the lunaracer and wore them for my 2 marathons.
I also wear pegasus for daily runs. I didnt know about the turbo model but just read RWarehouse review and seems they are primarily a daily trainer.
Bro i bought some Zoom Streak shoes as they were like $50 on special and they are very nice similar to Lunaracer but without lunarlon. I would use them for a marathon no problem.