Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
Cobra Commander Keen
Keen - It's funny how someone can love certain paces. I have such a strong love/hate with T pace. I look forward to the workouts so much, but when you're on the third interval of a 3x2 mile T session, I'm in so much misery and wonder why I do this to myself. I never feel that way during I pace work, it just sucks for like 1 minute at a time, not an agonizing 5+ minutes.
The I workouts are the tough ones for me. It always feels like I'm another 30 seconds from recovering when it's time to speed up again. The T workouts usually switch from "I have to run this fast for how long???" during the first minute or two to "oh, I could do this for a LONG time!" as I settle in to the pace and things feel better.
Piwi - The reason I went for the pink shoes was that they were 20% cheaper than any other color in my size - I like "cheap" shoes.
Matt - The RIverside 5000 (Aug 11, Tulsa) would be a great choice. Fast, flat 5k that has an elite and "everyone else" heat. The Brookhaven Run (September 1, Norman) is probably the fastest 5k in the state. No elite heat, but the state record 5k was done here (13:51). Both of these races have a prize purse, and I think the Brookside also offers extra money for setting a new state record.
The Aquarium Run (Jenks, April next year) is a flat, fast HM. It benefits the Jenks Aquarium, so it does get a good amount of hobby joggers. It is typically at the beginning of April, so there are fast people who use it as a tune-up for either the OKC Marathon or Botswana (the Patriots Day race).
There are really only two marathons of note in the state: The OKC Memorial in late April and the Route 66 in Tulsa in mid/late November. The OKC race is a flatter, somewhat rolling course, but the weather is a massive factor. It's not uncommon for race temps to be 60+ and humid after training all spring in sub-40 temps, which really wears people down. There are also two sections that seem to always be against a 15+mph wind - ~14-16mi and ~20-23 that while flat are the hardest parts of the course for this reason. Route 66 is hilly (and more so for the back half), but the weather is usually much nicer than OKC (30-40 at the start, frequently cloudy). These two (and their accompanying HMs) are the largest in the state and as such draw the most competition.
World Cup - I've only caught a little of it myself. DD1 (7) is a pretty good soccer football player and has watched some with me. We both agree that the big guys playing tend to act like babies when they get bumped. Honestly that's my one big gripe about soccer in general.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
CK - I feel the same way about the I workouts, but then again, they are supposed to be hard and uncomfortable. I think I've asked this question before, but on these workouts I don't get my heart rate up high enough according to Jack Daniels. Yesterday I maxed out at 175 on the 800m intervals, but according to Jack it should be somewhere close to my max, which is 192. Should I just toughen up and run faster? I already run the I and R sessions too fast according to Jack's tables as you can see below.
I just realized I finished my second week of workouts on the JD plan yesterday. Only 16 weeks to go . Yesterday's workout was 6 miles easy, 5x3 min intervals, 2 minute recovery followed by 6x1 min reps, at least 2 min recovery, and cooldown after that. This all added up to 12.6 miles, which felt very long at the time. I'd also like to kick that Daniels guy in the nuts for having me do reps after a bunch of hard intervals. Intervals went well except I lost my concentration on the last one at the same time as I badly needed a bathroom break, which then happened between the intervals and the reps. I think the workout again proved that speed is not an issue for me, or that I'm in better shape than I thought. Per the Jack Daniels tables I should run the intervals at 6:29 pace, and the reps at 6:05 pace. My average was 6:11 pace for the 800 intervals (3:01, 3:03, 3:04, 3:05, 3:10) and 5:29 pace on the 300 reps (1:02, 1:01, 1:02, 1:01, 1:03, 59). That said I'm very happy that I don't have any fast paced running for a full week with the weekend's workout just being a 15 mile long run.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
RIP Milkman
Rune - As the resident Jack Daniels expert on this board (self-proclaimed, therefore a title no one can steal from me), your experience is typical. First, I would say that I work is not nearly as difficult at 800 as it is at 1000. I found that I could cruise through my I pace work at shorter distances. Second, it's going to get progressively more difficult as you keep up the work. I find that the first couple of I paced workouts are pretty easy, but as I get deeper into training, I struggle to hit my paces as progressive fatigue really hits you. You have to remember that his workouts require you to be fatigued, so if you come into it relatively fresh (which you may be due to your vacation), you won't find it nearly as hard. Finally, the R paced work after I is SOOO crucial. It really teaches leg turnover. I don't worry too much about the pace of those, it's more the concept of turnover and raw speed than it is hitting a pace.
I have my first Jack workout this weekend of 2E+6M+1E+6M+1E. I was excited for that, until I saw this forecast for Sunday: high of 97 degrees with dew points at 71 for the day. I'm just going to do my best to hold perceived marathon effort, which will be a good 20 seconds slower than real marathon effort.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Workouts are tough for me too but they are so valuable. I dont know anything about JD training that you guys do. I just do 20 to 40 min tempos or vo2 1km intervals x 5.
Yesterday i decided to do 5x1000s on the beach as it was nearly low tide but after the first 2 i realised the tide wasnt low enough and the sand was too soft so i had to head back to the footpath.
The voice in my head was like this after the first one " this is too hard i will abort after 1, oh maybe one more " after the 2nd " stuff this im pulling the pin. Maybe one more on concrete " after the 3rd " i might just do 4 thats almost a proper session. Just one more i can do it" then " what the heck may as well do 5 😀"
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Piwi you know best how to trick yourself. Well maybe your Misses beats you to it. Doesnt matter. I do that all the time. Decrease the bite sizes and then fool myself into it has been a while though since I did some quality workout. I am running easy only for now. Monday back to the doc to see if she sees anything....
JD: after careful consideration of what Flavio had to say, I have officially left the JD Camp and bought into the Hansons. Same shit but my impression is it has less back2back workouts. So should be easier on my broken body.
Rune one thing I'd urge you not to do: dont increase mileage in phase 3. I did it twice and paid for it both times. JD also recommends against it. Can you confirm this JD Jr aka JMac?
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
Piwi - You've described almost every workout I've gone through. I always tell myself, okay, just do one more, you can bail out after that point. 90% of the time, I realize I can do another one after that. Lots of the same thoughts in races, just taking it one mile at a time. If you realize you're in the pain cave at mile 8 of a HMP and thinking about how you have 5+ to go, you will just collapse in a puddle of sadness.
MJ - You are correct! JD specifically talks about not increasing mileage after Phase II, as Phase III is too demanding to be including more mileage. It's hard not to increase mileage during the time even if you feel good, but consistency is way more important than mileage!
Thanks for the info again JMac. There are some 1000m sets (or 4 minutes as it says) in the program, but strangely he starts out with a 5x1000 and then scales it down to 4x1000.
Thanks for the warning regarding mileage Mick. I plan to just follow the progression as it's laid out in the book. Not sure if the book means 3x6-week phases, I think so, but if I make that assumption you don't hit peak mileage until you are in Phase 3 with 3 weeks at peak and 3 weeks at 90% of peak mileage.
I like your thinking Piwi. I think I could be better at that, I tend to look forward a bit too much. Maybe I should just block out all the following intervals more and focus more on the beer I will have when I get home instead
Hot Weather Complainer
With the intervals I always tell myself in the first couple that the only reason I feel like I want to die is the shock to the system and things will pick up. They usually do, although they get harder to maintain, mentally knowing you're 80% through feels so much better than 20%.
I also like to trick my brain a bit - I'll think "if this was the last interval I'd be feeling fine with this pace and holding it for another 30 seconds". In the first half of an interval session it's easy to worry too much that it hurts already, so just how bad will it get in the second half...
I did 6x1km tempo on Wednesday which is supposed to be 4:10-4:15 km pace but the first few were too fast. I was telling myself I had to slow down if I want to get through but somehow I held the "faster" pace all the way through (4:01-4:03) and felt not too bad. It's weird how the brain works sometimes. I do need to believe my body more and my garmin less - the garmin was jumping around all over the place and I was sure I was going faster than it was telling me, then it would correct itself by the end of the km and show me I was right.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Sounds like everyone is starting to get into their fall training programs. I am planning a Dec 8th Marathon a little deeper into the year with 23 weeks to go.
I have been reading trying to look at the different programs JD, Hanson, Pfitzinger, etc trying to determine which I should go with but seems the more I read the more "lost I get".
any advice on how to go about choosing what training plan to go with?
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)
Sounds like everyone is starting to get into their fall training programs. I am planning a Dec 8th Marathon a little deeper into the year with 23 weeks to go. I have been reading trying to look at the different programs JD, Hanson, Pfitzinger, etc trying to determine which I should go with but seems the more I read the more "lost I get". any advice on how to go about choosing what training plan to go with?
This guy writes a lot of nonsense but he does give a good overview of the different marathon plans: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans
Strava and reporting back to you guys helps me get through a workout. I dont want to fail or be seen to wimp out
Workouts are very satisfying afterwards if you achieve your goal or have an improvement.
Piwi this is exactly why they tell you to join a forum when you set up a goal: it drives you. You wouldn't work nearly as hard without us You are welcome!
Rune: your training is really strong at the moment as compared to a few months ago. So if JD calls for increases then of course I am sure your body will be fine in handling them. I just had the impression that his plans are geared more towards collegiate running and that my old bones aren't capable of that much pain without giving in to injuries. I am sure you will be fine though! Just meant to ask you - can you post your Kenian drills again? I am doing lots of recovery runs now and could easily implement those! Thanks in advance.
Damn right Mick and love or hate Strava it helps make us accountable.
Flavio I just had a big bowl of icecream with caramel sauce and then I broke up some chunks of white chocolate into it
Sounds like everybody is busy entering fall marathon training! lots of miles and good experience/training tips I will enjoy reading the next few months and learn for the next year. No more marathon for me this year. I want to focus on improving my racing mentality and I will do that on the half distance (I need to be able to race, not survive a race )
I joined the forum for the same reason highlighted by piwi and Mick, reporting here keeps me accountable. I need this for consistency and i like your mantra (consistency is king!). My main objective will be 90' in the HM in September, but I hope to generate enough consistent training to run the 13 miles at 4' per K (or 6:30). I will test my 5K fitness in the next couple of weeks (attempiting a new PB?) and then I will understand whether my advanced goal (4' per K in HM) is possible in July and August. Whatever the result, I will then use what I learned to prepare for a spring marathon next year. Hopefully this will bring me back into racing and PB mentality
for now, my week has been a good recovery week, with about 25 easy miles so far. I plan to increase to low 30 next week, to high 30 the week after and start my HM preparation on the 16th of July (2 building up weeks and 10 preparation weeks). For the first time in many years I am planning interval training and proper training sessions throughout the summer, and, I must admit, I look forward to it!!!
Enjoy your weekend
Marco
PRs since re-started in 2013:
5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18)
HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)
Upcoming races:
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Best piece of advice I got on this was to pick the one you think you would enjoy the most. JD, Pfitz, Hanson will all get you there. I chose JD because I liked the idea of 2 quality workouts per week and then the rest of the week left to structure as I see fit. Pfitz had too much weird stuff in there, like doubling when running 60 miles per week, back to back MLR ( no thanks), long runs after races, etc. Personally, I don't do well with a lot of long easy mileage, and I felt that Pfitz had too much of that where JD was more about quality work. However, most people stay away from JD because they think it'll increase their injury risk or they like the more structured plan of Pfitz.