2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 467 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

     

     

    Milkman - I know there’s a huge difference between 2:35/2:30…but has it ever crossed your mind to have sub2:30 as a long term goal say in 2 years time?  You’re still young and I think you’ve got the ability, but is it worth it and when do you see yourself retiring from running. 

     

    I'm planning on retiring from going all out each cycle with NYC this fall. Yes, I've said it before, but I think this is it for me as I'm finding it too hard to balance everything given how much time marathon running takes up. I don't think sub 2:30 is possible on that course for me unfortunately, probably need to get to CIM and wear some rollerblades. Although, if my body can handle it, I'm going to try the Mikkey approach to the NYCM: average 90+ MPW for the cycle and go for broke as my last hurrah. Hopefully I have a better outcome 

     

    Flavio - you are correct in most of your assessment. Weight is a huge advantage at the marathon distance. I think it's almost impossible to run your best marathon unless you get your weight down, although that naturally comes with running a lot of mileage unless you start eating like a pig. Although I am finding at around 80 MPW, I'm too hungry all the time and I don't really enjoy that. I think the sweet spot is like 50 MPW: enough that you get to enjoy some guilt-free snacks, but not worrying about how hungry you're going to be if you don't eat the right lunch.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    SteveChCh


    Hot Weather Complainer

      Lots of interesting comments, thanks all.  My coach has already signaled he intends to push my mileage higher on this cycle than the previous 2 but it still won't be as high as some of you freaks (trying to get an insult in to keep Mikkey happy).

       

      I guess we always like to think of goals but maybe I need to just do the work and see where I am a month out and reassess.  I will note that on my 20+ mile workouts I've not really struggled with energy levels but I've had a few cramp issues so I really need to have my nutrition down to avoid that sort of disaster as that could take me from being on track to smash a goal to Keen in a matter of minutes.

       

      I'll also need to look at the conditions on the day - I'll be training through Christchurch winter which is mild by North America standards but much colder than Melbourne winter, and certainly much colder than Melbourne spring when the race is.

       

      I think Mikkey's A, B and C goals for me are potentially realistic.  If someone told me I could have 3:15-20 and a good day right now I'd probably take it. But maybe that will change as we get closer to the race.

      Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

      Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

      Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

      Mikkey


      Mmmm Bop

         

         

        I think Mikkey's A, B and C goals for me are potentially realistic.  If someone told me I could have 3:15-20 and a good day right now I'd probably take it. But maybe that will change as we get closer to the race.

         

        Yep, because I know. 👍

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          Milkman - Be firm as this thread must remain hardcore and not for the faint hearted.

           

          Should we get a short course discussion going again? 

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

             

            Should we get a short course discussion going again? 

             

            You’re very mischievous. 

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            Marky_Mark_17


              I think B and C goals in a marathon can be useful if there’s an incentive to each goal. I lost count the amount of times my A goal was MM and then went into Sub3 B goal.  Steve has that sub3:20 Chicago qualifying target which I’d suggest as a C goal, sub3:15 as B goal and anything between 3:05/10 as A goal. I think that’s being generous considering he’s already run a marathon TT.

               

               

              This probably says your MM "goal" was more aspiration than goal for a good portion of that time.  If you missed it that many times, it can't have been realistically achievable at least at the outset.

               

              If you rate the idea of A, B and C goals then this thread is most definitely not 'hardcore'.  I can kind of see the logic in having an aspiration and a goal - the aspiration being the absolute dream (maybe a 20-30% chance of happening) and the goal being realistically achievable (but still a challenge and not a certainty).  But a 'C' goal?  That's only there to make yourself feel good if you missed everything else, it's basically the same thing as getting a medal for finishing.  Sometimes we all have bad days out there.  In my experience you learn more from the bad days than the good ones.  The much better answer is to set a realistic goal, and if you miss it, be honest and ask yourself why?  Paced it wrong?  Injury niggle?  Nutrition?  Under-trained?

               

              And what you've suggested for Steve spans basically a 15 minute band.  That's not a goal, that's most of a 5k race!

               

              Without a B goal, I'd just start walking at that point.  

               

              Really?  I don't believe that for 1 second and neither should you.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

              Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              CalBears


                 

                 Really?  I don't believe that for 1 second and neither should you.

                 

                I agree. If you see you cannot hit your A goal, the next thing you should do is the best you can do at the time, otherwise why in the World did you start that race for? I do not understand those C, D, E, ... and X, Y goals - way too unnecessary.

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  This probably says your MM "goal" was more aspiration than goal for a good portion of that time.  If you missed it that many times, it can't have been realistically achievable at least at the outset.

                   

                  If you rate the idea of A, B and C goals then this thread is most definitely not 'hardcore'.  I can kind of see the logic in having an aspiration and a goal - the aspiration being the absolute dream (maybe a 20-30% chance of happening) and the goal being realistically achievable (but still a challenge and not a certainty).  But a 'C' goal?  That's only there to make yourself feel good if you missed everything else, it's basically the same thing as getting a medal for finishing.  Sometimes we all have bad days out there.  In my experience you learn more from the bad days than the good ones.  The much better answer is to set a realistic goal, and if you miss it, be honest and ask yourself why?  Paced it wrong?  Injury niggle?  Nutrition?  Under-trained?

                   

                  And what you've suggested for Steve spans basically a 15 minute band.  That's not a goal, that's most of a 5k race!

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  Marky - Looking back you’re right that the MM was more an aspirational goal rather than realistic…and yes, a C goal is a bit silly….I hold my hands up when I get it wrong!

                   

                  Anyway, with Steve and anyone else on this thread…I want to see them run their best possible marathon and opinions may vary with their approach to a race! 

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  mmerkle


                    Hey I don't wanna derail the current discussion, just wondering real quick if anyone has any advice for running while traveling. I'm going to Canada next week and it's been a while since I had to worry about running while being away for a week. What I'm really asking is, what should I do with my dirty clothes lol? I'm not sure if I'll be able to wash them or not.

                    Ian5


                      Mmerkle-I take a spare plastic bag,then just put them in it after I've finished.

                      5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                      JMac11


                      RIP Milkman

                        Setting soft A goals vs setting aspirational A goals (ie less than 50%) and more likely B goals is the same exact thing.

                         

                        Setting an A goal that you are going to achieve barring something going wrong (all those reasons listed) is not goal setting in my opinion. Your A goal should be something that happens when the stars align so that you can find an extra gear late in the race if you need to push extra hard.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                         

                        JMac11


                        RIP Milkman

                           

                          I agree. If you see you cannot hit your A goal, the next thing you should do is the best you can do at the time

                           

                          That is the same as setting a B goal! "I'm going to do the best I can do at the time"

                           

                          My point is that some people (eg me) are very goal driven and if I know I'm not gonna hit it, I have very little drive to do what you just said: give it my best. Why suffer through all that pain? I need a secondary time to keep pushing myself.

                           

                          We are saying the same thing.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                           

                          Marky_Mark_17


                             

                            Marky - Looking back you’re right that the MM was more an aspirational goal rather than realistic…and yes, a C goal is a bit silly….I hold my hands up when I get it wrong!

                             

                            Anyway, with Steve and anyone else on this thread…I want to see them run their best possible marathon and opinions may vary with their approach to a race! 

                             

                            You still got there in the end with the MM though.  So maybe having it on your radar at the start was the right approach.  And yes ultimately we are all trying to contribute ideas to Steve, fair point.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                            Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Mr MattM


                              Hey I don't wanna derail the current discussion, just wondering real quick if anyone has any advice for running while traveling. I'm going to Canada next week and it's been a while since I had to worry about running while being away for a week. What I'm really asking is, what should I do with my dirty clothes lol? I'm not sure if I'll be able to wash them or not.

                               

                              I'd hand wash them in a sink, if necessary.

                              So, I did a thing.

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Your A goal should be something that happens when the stars align so that you can find an extra gear late in the race if you need to push extra hard.

                                 

                                So... like an aspiration then?  Rather than a goal?  Which should be realistic and achievable (but not certain)... that's not the case if you need the stars to align for it to happen.

                                 

                                That is the same as setting a B goal! "I'm going to do the best I can do at the time"

                                 

                                Totally disagree here.  Doing the best you can is just basic mindset, not a goal.  Even if the race isn't going well for whatever reason, the one thing as a runner that you are ALWAYS in control of is how much effort you put in.

                                 

                                My point is that some people (eg me) are very goal driven and if I know I'm not gonna hit it, I have very little drive to do what you just said: give it my best. Why suffer through all that pain? I need a secondary time to keep pushing myself.

                                 

                                We are saying the same thing. 

                                 

                                This thread: "HARDCORE BOTT GOALS ONLY!"

                                Also this thread: "My B goal is to not walk".

                                 

                                You gotta admit, it is kinda funny.

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                                Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"