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Running Newbie worried about making my half marathon goal. (Read 1730 times)

    I went back and looked at my last race (The 14k) and my heart rate was over 85% (169) at mile 2.09 and never got back under that.

     

    It hung out between 85% and 87% for quite a while (low 170's) and then it crossed 90% (175) at mile 7.32 and slowly climbed to 96% (183) by the finish 8.67 miles.

     

    At the time I felt like I hadn't really gone "all out" on that race based on my finish notes.  My wife actually ran that race too and I went back and jogged in with her the last 1/2 mile or so.

     

    Splits on that run are worthless because of the wind being such a factor (20-25mph).

     The second 10K or at least the last 5K of your half you will be at or within a few beats of max HR.

     

    That probably wasn't 100% for a 15K, but might have been a very good first 15K of a half.

     

    Or 14K, or whatever. Reading your first post again, I think your 15K tune-up is this weekend and your ½ is at some unspecified time in the future.

     

    If you feel like you can run harder, you can probably run harder. Over-analysis is bad. I do it all the time, normally in pre-race panic just like you're doing. I let myself do it, and then try to go more with the fact that - I feel strong, I've put in the training, why shouldn't I be confident?

     

    MTA - my goals on my first half were to finish in under 2 hours and to puke. I got 1 of them, and didn't puke. I felt like I should have though.

    2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

    2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

      ........ I'm using 188 as my max right now.............. 

       

      I sure hope 70-75% isn't what I should be expecting on my HM because that's what I'm training at as an easy run.  That's what McMillan shows anyway.  150 is right at 70% for me and that's where I try to be on all my long runs and adjust my pace accordingly. 

       

       

       FYI. A 150 HR is actually 80% of your max HR.  132 would be around 70% of max. I see some other miscalculations above also. 85% of your max would be around 160 HR. Maybe your true max is a bit higher??????  Not a big deal but if you are anal about numbers as I am, it should be noted. As you can see I noticed this Wink

       

      Just a comment on 8 mile tempos. You are not a high mileage runner as mentioned earlier. I think 8 mile tempos at estimated marathon pace would be fine for your and who knows, maybe your pace was marathon pace if feeling like you had something left.  If I went out and tried to run 8 miles at my half marathon pace, WELL, I don't think I could finish the work out - it would really feel like a race to me. BUT, I am a low mileage runner. If I am running 80 miles per week, I could probably handle  it.  One suggestioin is to run a progression tempo of eight miles. You warm up easy for a mile or two and the middle miles your progressively get faster (marathon pace to 10K pace) and then do an easy mile to finish OR do reps at half marathon pace like 5 X 1 mile with 2 min jog recoveries. This is a solid work out (4 X 1 mile would be enough for me) if truely at half marathon effort. You have some learning to do. Getting out a racing more and knowing your true fitness is part of that. That 15K will tell you a lot. Also, a 5K race is an good predictor too but that 15K will be an excellent predictor of your half pace.

      Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

        Well, I blew up! 

        Went out a bit too fast with an 8:45 split on mile 1, mile 2 was downhill and had a 8:57 split on it, turned into the wind and pretty decent hill for around here on mile 3 and my split was 9:29, but my heart rate hit 180 (94%) climbing the hill and I was pushing too hard.  Mile 4 was still into the wind (20 - 25mph) and I had a 9:18 split there and then hit the turn around and about 1/2 of mile 5 was with the wind and got it down to a 9:06 split.  My heart rate was up to 184 by then though (97%) and the sun came out which really seems to affect me.  I kept at it for mile 6 planning to just keep on pushing it.  Dropped to a 9:17 split for mile 6 and heart rate was at 182 (95%).

        Got back to the hill and knew I couldn't keep it up, so I walked the hill then got back after it.  My heart got it's reprieve and my heart rate fell down to 166 at the top of the hill (83%), but by the time I got to the end of mile 7 it was back to 179 (94%).  I kept at it but ended up walking the next hill for 3 1/2 minutes before running again.  My heart rate only dropped to 170 (86%) on that break, but I had just over a mile to go and figured I could suffer through it.  Mile 8 was the killer with the hill, split was 10:38.   

        Mile 9 wasn't that bad, I guess I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Split wasn't great at 9:19, but I was running and knew I could keep it up for another .3 miles.  Heart rate at the end of mile 9 was 187 (99.5%).

        Just kept running to the finish and felt like I gave it all I had.  One positive note was that I found my new maximum heart rate of 189 right at the finish line.  (I had only hit 188 before).

        1:28:02 I think was my official time for an official pace of 9:28 for 9.3 miles.  (My runkeeper shows 9.36 for an average pace of 9:25).

        Trying to take some lessons out of this and there is no doubt that I started out too fast.  My runkeeper got lost for a second about 1.25 miles in and added a big zig zag when I went under an overpass and my stated pace was messed up for the rest of the race.  Then I just focused on my heart rate, thinking that I could keep it at 90%+ the entire way if I just sucked it up.  I couldn't.  I should have backed off when my heart rate crossed 180 and slowed it down then and I think I would have avoided the blow up.  I should set 175 as a threshold and keep it under that probably until the last few miles.

        There were supposed to be water stops every 2 miles, but they skipped the one at 4 miles.  I really needed the water then and ended up taking 2 at the next water stop.  That was too much at once.  I should have poured one on me and drank the other. 

        I really am affected by temperature.  I'm sure everyone is, but at 220 once I get overheated it's tough to cool back down.  I should have been pouring water on me but didn't realize I was getting overheated until it was too late.  It was only 70 degrees but humidity was high for here and the sun came out around mile 6 and I was done for.  I think my only hope for a sub 2 hour half marathon is if a cold front rolls in the night before the race!

        I feel fine now, and it wasn't really my legs that were holding me back, it was cardio.  I'm sure the obsessing and worrying didn't help a lot but I am still shocked that I did so poorly.  This is a pretty hilly course (722' of elevation gains, although it is a 0 net elevation as an out and back) and my other 9:00 pace Tempo runs were all flat so I'm sure that had something to do with it as well.

        If anyone else sees anything that I can work on or learn from I'm all ears. 

        Thanks, Nathan

        Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

           FYI. A 150 HR is actually 80% of your max HR.  132 would be around 70% of max. I see some other miscalculations above also. 85% of your max would be around 160 HR. Maybe your true max is a bit higher??????  Not a big deal but if you are anal about numbers as I am, it should be noted. As you can see I noticed this Wink

           

          Just a comment on 8 mile tempos. You are not a high mileage runner as mentioned earlier. I think 8 mile tempos at estimated marathon pace would be fine for your and who knows, maybe your pace was marathon pace if feeling like you had something left.  If I went out and tried to run 8 miles at my half marathon pace, WELL, I don't think I could finish the work out - it would really feel like a race to me. BUT, I am a low mileage runner. If I am running 80 miles per week, I could probably handle  it.  One suggestioin is to run a progression tempo of eight miles. You warm up easy for a mile or two and the middle miles your progressively get faster (marathon pace to 10K pace) and then do an easy mile to finish OR do reps at half marathon pace like 5 X 1 mile with 2 min jog recoveries. This is a solid work out (4 X 1 mile would be enough for me) if truely at half marathon effort. You have some learning to do. Getting out a racing more and knowing your true fitness is part of that. That 15K will tell you a lot. Also, a 5K race is an good predictor too but that 15K will be an excellent predictor of your half pace.

           

          That's what I originally thought, but you have to take your resting heart rate away from your maximum to get the heart rate zone %.

           

          http://www.runnersweb.com/running/hr_calculator_new.html

           

          Looking at that calculator again I spent a LOT of time at VO2 Max whatever that is.  It's showing my Anerobic zone as 169-176 bpm and that falls in line with what I feel I can sustain for an extended period of time.

           

          Pushing it up over 180 isn't something I can sustain more than a couple miles although looking at my heart rate graph I spent about 4 miles today over 180.  Of course I had to walk after the first 2 miles that it was over 180 then ran for a mile with it over 180 and had to walk again and then the last mile was over 180.

           

          If I can't keep my pace where it needs to be with my heart rate under 176 I'm not going to be able to keep it there for long anyway.

          Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

            I think you either use the karvonen method if you don't know your exact max HR. If you know it then you simply use the percentages. I don't know of anyone nor have I ever used that formula you pasted. It gives some general zones but for me with my age and resting HR it estimates 75% of max at 148 when it is actually 136 for me.  Find your max and use the percentages off of that if you want to get anal with the numbers. I don't think you need to use your resting HR if you know your true max.  It is no doubt you would be walking with a HR above 180 for any length of time as you are training/racing above your threshold (anaerobic) and nearing your max. Your body shuts down. Looking at your race results, I think you are lacking aerobic strength. You just need more miles and more time to build this.  Also, more race experience will help with pacing. It is a learning experience. Next time will be better.

            Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

              I used this method when finding my heart rate zones. [url]http://www.marathonguide.com/training/articles/HeartMonitorTraining.cfm[/url] I did the intervals and stuff when I first got my monitor and got a Max of 187 two different times. Since then I hit 188 in an interval training workout that I did and now hit 189 at the finish of this 15k race. I feel that I have a pretty good idea of my max. 189 give or take 2 beats. I did the resting heart rate by taking an average of 3 days first thing in the morning before I got out of bed. Not much of an average because it was 60 all three times. I'm guessing my resting heart rate is probably a little lower than that now, but not more than a couple beats per minute. Everything I've read says this is the most accurate way to do it. It matches up really well with my perceived effort on my runs.

              Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27


              Black-Toe-Nailed

                Thanks for the reply.  I've done several different workouts to get my max heart rate and I've gotten 187 or 188 in all of them.  I'm using 188 as my max right now.  That was during the winter though so not sure if the warmer temps could change my max heart rate any, but they sure change my heart rate on my workouts.

                 

                Per regular formulas on age and all that I should have a max of 177.

                 

                I've done my resting rate a few times in the morning before I get out of bed and it was always right around 60, probably is a little lower now, but not by more than a couple beats or so.

                 

                 

                That's a clue. While your max HR does not vary too much (it's based on genetics) what really gives you an idea of your level of aerobic fitness is your minimum HR; the more you train the lower it gets. It can go as low as 38-40 (in my case). What this means is that your heart muscle becomes slightly bigger being able to pump more blood (and oxygen) with each beat.

                 

                Another tell-tale figure is VO2max. I know it's value is somewhat limited as indicator of fitness level, but for us amateur runners it is still the best guide that we have. 

                 

                What it tells me is that you still need to improve your aerobic capacity. Checking your training plan and workouts what I see is that you haven't been running for too long, or at least not logging it. Your training plan is only 4 weeks long.

                 

                While your VO2max seems to be pretty good (35 is an excellent mark) what you may be lacking is (besides pure aerobic capacity) just training time: A normal HM schedule is 12 weeks long. The issue is not only with  being able to reach a pace and maintain it for some time, there are more things that change during the training like specific changes in your muscles and even metabolism and your general running efficiency  that will allow you to keep a steady pace for 13 miles.

                I would suggest to take it easy on your first 13 miler and don't try to force things as it may lead to injuries and or longer recoveries.

                 

                What I would do is start to plan ahead for your next race allowing yourself at least 12 weeks of training with a good taper week at the end. You will see how you will start not only to be able to maintain the 9:00 pace steadily for a long time but also improve on it.

                In any case, I don't see why 1:50 wouldn't be feasible. I have a gut feeling that that's the time you will achieve.

                 

                Good luck! 

                --

                "If one can stick to the training throughout the many long years,
                then will power is no longer a problem. It's raining? That doesn't matter.
                I am tired? That's besides the point. It's simply that I just have to."

                Emil Zatopek

                  I've been running for 11 months now and was up to around 15 mpw in the last quarter of 2011.

                   

                  I made up a 16 week training plan for this half marathon on my own mainly a mix of McMillan and Hogdon's plans.  I told myself I wasn't going to get another hobby so I decided not to mess around posting on any running forums.

                   

                  With a month to go I got scared that I wasn't going to make my pace and joined here and started posting.  I posted a PDF of my plan in the first post and then put my last month in the training calendar and uploaded all my 2012 workouts.

                   

                  Still scratching my head as to how this 15K race turned out as poorly as it did.  I had a sore throat last night and took some antihistamines, but didn't take any the morning before the race.  Kinda worried that I might be on the verge of getting sick which would be pretty bad timing.  I intentially dehydrated myself Thursday night and Friday morning for a biggest loser contest at work and thought I had gotten rehydrated before the race but now I'm second guessing that too.  I didn't realize until this evening that I took a leak before the race at 8:00 this morning and even after drinking over a half gallon of water and powerade I didn't need to go pee until 5:00 this evening so I was obviously somewhat dehyrdated during the race.

                   

                  I think I'm going to chalk this up to a bad day and continue on with the thought of still shooting for my sub 2 hour HM.  Lessons learned are that I'm going to hang with the 4 hour marathon pace group at the start until the HM folks turn back around mile 7 and split off.  I'd rather finish at 9:10 and miss my goal by a few seconds than blow up and have to start walking again.

                  Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                    Antihistamines mess up my HR big time.

                     

                    And I don't think that the race was as bad as you think, that late Thursday night workout (after a run that morning) might have been the factor in not getting the time you were looking for.   But that has now made you stronger for having run on tired legs.  Keep up the work and you'll do fine.

                      Antihistamines mess up more than my HR. They are my running nemesis. Well, them and the hay fever I take them for.

                       

                      Dehydrating yourself a day before a long run is probably not smart, let alone a 15km race.

                       

                      You haven't tapered yet.

                       

                      You'll be fine......

                      2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

                      2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                        Well after 2 great easy runs on Monday and Tuesday, this morning my heart rate monitor seemed to be lying to me.

                         

                        I've been worried about this mornings workout for a while since it was going to be my last real workout before tapering for my big race, but I hadn't decided exactly what I was going to do for it.

                         

                        I had pretty much settled on an increasing pace run somewhere between 8 and 10 miles when I started out, it was a pretty morning 50 degrees and a 10mph south wind.  Started the first mile at a 10:00 pace, felt pretty good, next mile dropped to a 9:45 pace still feeling good and then I just started feeling bad.  Not like I was hurting or anything, just not feeling it.  My calves were kind of tight and my heart just wasn't in it.  My heart rate monitor was telling me I wasn't working hard at all but it seemed to me that I was.

                         

                        Instead of trying to push through it I just quit.  I've been fighting a cold or allergies and don't want to risk getting sick.

                         

                        Not sure what was up this morning as my heart rate monitor showed a 146 avg heart rate at a 10:00 overall pace, but I didn't feel that at all.

                         

                        I'll run some slower paces and ignore my heart rate monitor the next couple days and see if I can get it back together.

                        Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                          Sometimes you don't feel like running, but you run anyway.

                          Often it gets better later in the run and sometimes it just gets worse.

                          If you're not going to injure yourself or jeopardize your next workout, keep running.

                          During hunting season you will be glad you did.

                            Sometimes you don't feel like running, but you run anyway.

                            Often it gets better later in the run and sometimes it just gets worse.

                            If you're not going to injure yourself or jeopardize your next workout, keep running.

                            During hunting season you will be glad you did.

                            Fixed it.

                             

                            If it doesn't feel like it should, slow down for a bit, and just run easy. I'm definitely one for adjusting your plan based on how you feel on a particular day - I've had easy runs turn into 20km pace runs just because it felt so good that day I didn't want to waste it. It seems to work for me, and I seem to be able to do a pretty good job of creating good days when I want them. That's really the whole point of a taper, to try to make race day a 'good day'.

                             

                            I might have run the same distance you'd planned, but maybe not done the progression bit, at least not until I'd warmed up. I do find that occasionally it takes me 8-10K to warm up out of a bad day. I also had a run recently where I commented in my log that it was much harder than it should have been for no particular reason. Sometimes happens. 

                             

                            I might look for anything common between that run and the race you blew up in. Antihistamines, temperature, biggest loser weigh-ins, not eating, eating too much, doing 700 squats 2 hours before your run, playing soccer for a couple hours....... one of those maybe? Could be even simpler.

                             

                            Don't stress, just run.

                             

                            MTA:

                             

                            Here's that run. Comment was actually "Seriously dragging for no known reason" I was 30 sec/km slower than my run that morning, and it felt way harder.

                            2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

                            2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                              Thanks for the encouragement.

                               

                              Actually the biggest reason that I stopped on that run was that I was about to crap my pants, I just didn't want to put that in there.

                               

                              That has actually been an adjustment for me as for the first time in my life I'm actually having to plan ahead on my bowel movements and I'm not doing a stellar job on it.  I run out in the country and have actually started carrying some TP with me for emergencies, but that run was along a paved road and a little more traffic than some of the roads that I run on.

                               

                              I'm trying to get into more of a routine on that, and it is actually one of my concerns on my race coming up, but hopefully I'll get it all worked out.  Pun intended.

                              Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                                My race is coming up in just 3 days!!!

                                Ran my last real run probably until my race day, just an easy 6 miler this morning.  Heart rate was good, pace felt good, etc.  My taper has been pretty extreme with that being my only run of race week period.  I've been super hectic at work this week and had another easy run planned Monday but just couldn't get it worked in.

                                My biggest worry has been about the temperature on race day and right now the forecast is for a low of 53 that morning and and high of 68 for the day with 30% chance of rain so I don't think I'm going to have to worry about overheating or dehyrating!  The race starts at 7:30 so I should be finished before the temperature makes it out of the 50's.  They hit the cap of 18,000 runners and my biggest race so far has been about 300 so hopefully I'll make the adjustment okay.  Will be my first experience with a corral start and all that fun stuff, but I'm sure it will go off fine.

                                It's still going to be real iffy for me on making it, I'm planning on going out with the 4 hour marathon pace group more than likely, and run with them until the marathon continues on at about mile 8.  By then I should have the pace down and be able to make the last 5 back to the finish and if I'm feeling great I could pick it up on the way back. 

                                Wish me luck!  Thanks, Nathan

                                Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

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